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New Rack & Pinion - what do I need?

Discussion in 'Brakes, Steering & Suspension' started by HarveyCat, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. HarveyCat

    HarveyCat New Member

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    ai.ebayimg.com_images_g_f4EAAOSwzaJX5gy0_s_l1600.jpg
    I have this Rack and Pinion (see photo above) -- and I know I need a set of "Outer Tie Rod Ends" (shown below) -- but do I also need a set of the "Inner Tie Rod ends" (also pictured below) -- or are they already on my Rack (again pictured above)?

    Don't fear I do have a mechanic putting this in for me.

    And by the way -- what price range would you expect to pay to get this done at a cheap shop?

    ALSO - I was thinking of changing pump while it is all drained -- any advice -- was going to get this one:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-O...-Ford-Windstar-1999-2003-20-313-/141647884533


    ai.ebayimg.com_images_g_DaYAAMXQHPhSJkcD_s_l1600.jpg
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  2. Action

    Action Moderator Staff Member Respected Member

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    Welcome to the FFO!

    The inner tie rod ends are on the rack, that is pictured. However they may need replacing and it would be far easier to replace now than with the rack on the car. The inner tie rods should be inspected for looseness before that decision is made.

    Pump replacement would be because the pump is worn. As evidenced by noise or low pressure. Otherwise why would you replace it? Inspection is needed. If the rack is being replaced because of internal wear the pump may need flushing.

    As to cost of labor, that would vary across the country which is unknown because your profile is incomplete and based on the year and vehicle which was not stated.

    >>>>>>>>>>>Action
    ford4v429 likes this.
  3. ford4v429

    ford4v429 Member

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    Location:
    Ohio salt belt...
    if you are in a rust belt area, expect to need hoses too...the internal o rings arent replaceable, every time ive loosened one up, disturbing it was a fail...the lines seeped/leaked due to rust/grit inside the fitting messing up the o-rings. pre-oiling the backside of the fitting before loosening should help lubricate the dry backside of the o-rings, cant hurt, but it still never saved me from a seeping hose- and they are a bear, requiring crowfoot line sockets, bent wrenches, etc. and often the ujoint needs pulled off, mounts loosened to slide rack out on pins to get any access to fittings... easiest to swap hoses when its partially installed.
  4. HarveyCat

    HarveyCat New Member

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    @Action

    Thanks for help! The inner tie rod ends came on this Detroit Axle brand reman rack -- are they often in need of being replaced?

    The pump has been making noise perhaps from rack being bad. I think the rack got hurt in a fender bender years back.

    I'm just across the Hudson from Manhattan -- I think my guy will do it all for $250 -- It is a 2000 Windstar 3.8 SEL with 100,000 miles.

    =========

    @ford4v429

    Thanks also! Is NYC the rust belt? Lots of road salt - boy we got hit today. So yes - it sounds wise to change the hoses! Could you perhaps show me what I should buy on ebay, amazon or Rock Auto (perhaps a link) for all needed hoses etc...
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  5. Action

    Action Moderator Staff Member Respected Member

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    The inner ends take some abuse in turns. On a reman unit I would assume that they are good.

    Good advice on hose replacement.

    If the fluid is black or had silver in it from the rack coming apart, flush anything that will have fluid and is NOT being replaced. Debris in the system can cause a repeat failure.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
  6. HarveyCat

    HarveyCat New Member

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    Thanks again Action! So what type of Power Steering fluid and how much should I get -- should I get something else too to flush system with? Also is there one brand that is better for Tie Rods, pump & hoses than what I am getting?

    Also this youtube has some short cuts to putting this in -- BTW is $250 a really good deal for all this work?

  7. HarveyCat

    HarveyCat New Member

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  8. ford4v429

    ford4v429 Member

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    Location:
    Ohio salt belt...
    we had a 98 windstar too- i pulled my back out bad trying to break the rusty subframe bolts loose to get the rack out- couldnt stand straight for a week, took it to a garage(i never do that) think they charged 400, guy said he would never do another, took two days- then the pressure hose started dripping- book said 12 hour job, intake manifold has to come off...saved by the bell, ford bought the piece of junk back over the rear axle debacle, another week i woulda junked it- they gave me 2k for it :) the only car i have ever sold, bought back by ford...
    good luck on it- ours was a decent car for 6 yrs, but man when they start to rust... if yours aint rusty, do yourself a favor- the inner rockers have rubber plugs on the inner rockers- pop them out and flush them out before the rockers go- i had to weld a bunch of structural steel in ours andput tin over, didnt show, but went to change a tire one day, jack just crushed into the rocker notch...theres like 1/8" rubber under the rocker paint, all the structure inside was gone
  9. Action

    Action Moderator Staff Member Respected Member

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    Use the fluid specified in the owners manual.

    Any parts not being replaced - do flush. If you are replacing all hydraulic parts flushing is not needed.

    Other than Motorcraft, I am not brand sensitive.

    >>>>>>>>>>Action
  10. HarveyCat

    HarveyCat New Member

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    Hi

    Thanks! I really don't have any rust. Likely it is the low miles 100,000 and most of those were done on the NJ Turnpike.

    What exact hoses should I buy supply and return? Would 1995-98 part work on a 2000? See link:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/361486987486

    if not then

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/311739248666?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
  11. ford4v429

    ford4v429 Member

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    Location:
    Ohio salt belt...
    you dont want to change pressure hose on a windstar if its similar to the 1998- ac/manifold, lots of labor...seriously, book time was like 12 hours vs only 3 for changing a rack... if no rust, hopefully the inner line seals are still good- the hoses dont usually go bad unless disturbed and theres rust/dirt in the backside of the fitting.
    I put 3 racks in my mark VII over ten yrs, first and last both needed new hoses, due to it being my winter car, salt got into the fittings, removing ruined the seals. i did see where some folks buy or make a nylon face seal to put under the fitting to stop leaks, but dunno how well they would last...just leave it, if it dont leak first day after the rack goes in, it probably never will :) pressure hose on a windstar looked like a nightmare compared to my old mark
    our 98 had 94k on it when it went away, only rust appeared to be a dime sized bubble in a rocker panel on each side, till the day i jacked it up... grinding thru the paint, there was 2'+ of no rocker, could push on it and feel it crunching...ford put real heavy stoneguard or similar rubber on before painting, by the time that blisters, theres nothing behind it. like i mentioned, theres a bunch of rubber plugs under the car, on the vertical inner rocker, pop them out, flush the road grime out once in a while, it would do wonders for life of the chassis :)
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  12. HarveyCat

    HarveyCat New Member

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    Are you now saying don't change any hose -- they all take a long time? If not is this then the right hose to change - since it is not the pressure hose it is the return hose? I really don't have rust. Also this OEM hose says 1995-98 but aren't these years all interchangeable with the 2000? See link:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/361486987486

    if that one isn't right is this one right?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/311739248666
    ford4v429 likes this.
  13. Action

    Action Moderator Staff Member Respected Member

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    I would only use parts for a vehicle that the seller states fit the application. If you buy a part that does not fit your application and it does not fit, well that wasn't a purchase that works and was stated up front it did not work.

    Buying a shop manual may give you an idea of difficultly AND give you insight as to how a replacement should occur.

    >>>>>>>>>>Action
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  14. ford4v429

    ford4v429 Member

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    Location:
    Ohio salt belt...
    the ones ive had fail, were all pressure, and all after removing a rusty fitting...if yours is clean, dont worry about it. after seeing how ford ran that pressure hose thru the engine valley, i wouldnt swap it unless it has to be- its about as bad as a heater core job, maybe worse...

    your hoses are probably fine- i originally mentioned because of a couple i had to redo after swapping racks...my mark vii had several rack failures(potholes- ugh) and twice after swapping the pressure hose leaked- its the way ford designed the fitting, it snaps together permanently with a inner snap ring and o-ring seal...any rust between nut/line, unscrewing it risks scuffing up the o-ring...
    on that particular mark vii car, hoses are pretty easy if rack partially in or out... replacing hose was easiest if rack was pulled partially out.
    on windstar, its the silly routing path ford used making major disassembly required, not just the tight fitting access. no rust, no worries most likely.

    seriously, after seeing the hose routing on mine, i had already decided to first try and make a adapter fitting to allow putting a flare end on the hose...thankfully ford took it back :)


    like action said too- only use listed year parts, oems change stuff all the time... you'd think they would be same, but why try, just find right year :)
  15. HarveyCat

    HarveyCat New Member

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    Thanks to both of you - i am just taking rack and 2 outer tie rod ends - will ask him to really flush pump and all.

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