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Street Performance

Discussion in 'Ford Performance' started by Ross6860, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. Ross6860

    Ross6860 New Member

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    This has probably been gone over 100 times, but I'll make it 101.

    I have a wheezing '74 351-2V w/ a C6 and 9" rear in a Torino

    I want to build a decent street package that can still run 75 -80 mph all day on the highway.

    So, do I:

    1) Find another Cleveland and build it with a set of matched aftermarket heads, cam, manifold, 4v carb, proper exhaust, ignition, and a set of 3.25 gears and call it done

    2) Go with a more mod friendly Windsor and mirror the above

    3) stick a 400 in it

    4) find a 460

    The car is extremely original down to stickers, catch cans, etc. it's almost a shame to mod the engine. I'll probably pull it and stick it on a stand as is and put a complete modded engine in in its place.

    I'm inclined to go with #1. Shooting for an honest 300 hp at the wheels (not a race car by any means).

    There's always the fuel injection route.

    Go ahead, throw daggers, tell me I'm nuts, etc.

    What do you all think?

    I know I'll have to do a bunch more research before I decide.

    Thx
  2. Dominick

    Dominick Well-Known Member Respected Member

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    I'd go with #1 also build it a bit forget the fuel injection don't know about getting 300 HP without a lot of work.
    I bought a 74 Gran Torino 351W FMX new ran nice but nothing to brag about.
    There is some good reading in the Fox body section about having ignition and fuel injection problems after converting.
    JMO
  3. Dominick

    Dominick Well-Known Member Respected Member

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  4. Ross6860

    Ross6860 New Member

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    Thanks for the link.

    Looks like it focuses on the Windsor motor. Is there much Cleveland specific info in that book?

    I have plenty of generic reference material on performance builds. I've built a couple respectable street motors over the years - a couple FE motors, a couple Harleys (Evos and Shovels), a couple Suzuki and Kaw 2-strokes, and one SBC. Not the highest outputs, but they never broke (at least not while I owned them:wink5:)

    I'm not opposed to changing to a 351 Windsor or 400, but keeping a Cleveland just ensures all the accessories will fit and no mounts, brackets, or whatever, would need to be sourced or changed.

    FWIW - I had a stock 400 in a 77 LTD, and from what I remember it was no slouch once it got moving.
  5. dyngrngalaxie

    dyngrngalaxie Active Member Respected Member

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    If it's a 2bbl, much more likely it's a 351 M. - smogger engine.
    '74 was about the right time. Clevelands are far rarer
    than most people think. It could be a cleveland, but I would doubt it. I'm a purist. If the car is that nice, I'd keep the original mill intact as you suggested and put something else in it, that can be removed to restore the car back to original.
    my 2 cents worth.
  6. Ross6860

    Ross6860 New Member

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    I picked up my "donor" engine today.

    $200, but I took a little gamble on what I got...the prior owner took it apart many years ago and his project never panned out. The crank was improperly stored, so I'm hoping a polish will bring it back, or worst case a minimum cut on the main and rod journals. The block alone should be worth the $s. At least the bores didn't get rusty.

    It is an early 351C that hasn't been overbored or had the crank cut. I couldn't mic the bores to see how bad they were, but a spot check shows the bores are original along with the pistons.

    All the important stuff is there for what I wanted: block, crank, main caps, rods, pistons, a set of 2V heads (no use for these), exhaust manifolds (probably no use for these, either), pan, valve covers, timing cover, and a bunch of various and sundry parts.

    They "lost" the intake, carb, and distributor over the years, but I wouldn't be using them anyhow. Also lost 1/3 of the rockers and pedestals (again, no use for them), and th eflex-plate is missing.

    I'll have to check everything over, but I think I may be able to use the pistons. They are flat-tops with fly-cut valve reliefs in them. I'll have to figure out the compression ratio with the Aussie heads I picked up. As long as it's under 10.5:1 I'll be happy. 10:1 would be ideal:smilewinkgrin:

    Also got a set of "new in box" Clevite rod and main bearings, a set of Sealed-Power rings, and a new Speed-Pro timing gear/chain set (not a true-roller though, so I won't be using it either), and a top-end gasket kit and a new valley tray.

    Anyone got a favorite cam recommendation? Probably my biggest "unknown" at this point. Again, it's a street build so definitely nothing over 6200 rpm (redline).

    FWIW - I used to shift my FE street motors at 5000 rpm with no ill effects and plenty of street manners, very smooth idle and they would pull hard all the way to 5000 rpm (stock bottom-end, heavier valve springs, chrome-moly pushrods, and of course cam, manifold, ignition, etc). They would definitely nose over at 5200-5300 rpm. So I'm not afraid to take a 351C to 5500-5800 rpm shift points without upgrading the bottom-end.

    What do you all think?
  7. olerodder

    olerodder Member

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    Here is a good article on building a 351C, it can be done but not quite a cheaply as a 351w. Now, with that said a stroker would be the best bang for the buck, and not that more expensive than using your stock crank, rods, pistons..........and a lot more reliable. The most recent 351w I built is in my drag car, and with single 4v it cranks out 650hp @ 6800rpm and 544lbft of torque @ 5700. But this is a race only car with 12.5 to 1 CR, and is a stroked 351w...........408ci.

    Speed-O-Motive's 408 Cleveland stroker kit - Tech Articles - Mustang Monthly Magazine
  8. dyngrngalaxie

    dyngrngalaxie Active Member Respected Member

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    351C
    Hi Ross. You were absolutely right. 351M infact did not appear until '75. Did some research & found that out.
    So - that aint bad! You've got a genuine 351C. Apparently the 400 came out in 71, a year earlier than I thought,
    followed 4 yrs later by the 351M. They kind of hopped
    around in those years. Back in 76 when I was trying to bail out of my gobble-gobble 74 Chrysler, looked at a 74 Galaxie which had a 351 W, (personally, my own all time favourite)
  9. Ross6860

    Ross6860 New Member

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    Thanks for all the input. I'm going to take my time building the new engine. It will probably take two or three years to do it the way I want. I did find a reputable shop to handle all the machine work thanks to all the racers at work (nothing better than having a bunch of guys from all different kinds of racing all recommending the same shop).

    By the time you pay for everything to be done correctly on the rotating assembly, it's true you can almost get a "kit" already balanced and polished. Since I'm taking my time, I may be able to spring for a stroker kit.

    So, in the meantime. The '74 motor will get Aussie heads, an aluminum intake, Edelbrock carb, a mild cam, headers, and a good ignition. The Aussie heads will bump the miserable compression ratio in the '74 a full point. A little more if the heads are shaved a bit. The cam will bring the engine back to '69-'71 era specsm or a little better. This will keep me happy while the other engine is in the project phase, plus it gives me time to finish all the detail work on the rest of the car (rear end, suspension, interior, and a nice sound system).

    I'll keep ya all posted as things progress.
  10. dieseldr63

    dieseldr63 Member

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    Do yourself a favor- when you order the timing gear set, order one for a 70 cleveland, after 72 or 3, all manufacturers retarded their valve timing events to suit the first wave of emission certifications. The older timing sets will provide better cylinder filling which will act like a boost in compression since the engine can breathe better. A quick and easy trick to wake up any emission engine that doesn't need to meet emissions!

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