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The GREAT Get Ms. American 3.14159 Ready For Inspection Caper

Discussion in 'Ford Galaxie' started by JCAllison, Jul 7, 2016.

  1. Dominick 1

    Dominick 1 Well-Known Member Respected Member

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    Duralast Gold Dist
    acontentinfo_autozone_com_znetcs_product_info_en_US_rpi_BDLG_FD47_image_2__.jpg
    another view
    acontentinfo_autozone_com_znetcs_additional_prod_images_en_US_rpi_BDLG_FD47_7_image_3__.jpg
  2. ford4v429

    ford4v429 Member

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    quick question- is that secondary idle screw going to clear the intake? looks like it would be close with the bigger hex head.
    the cutoff slotting thing usually works out well for getting busted screws out with minimal damage- just not for upper FE exhaust manifold studs huh...THATs been a while ago hasnt it :)

    on the ported vacuum shutoff- once you come off your high idle cam, youre going to lose a lot of timing arent you? and wont the high idle screw be barely opening as the secondaries will already be doing a lot of the flow? just asking, as it seems as if the high idle might be 'iffy' on getting your ported vacuum open for idle quality, but i'm only half awake... slept like a rock last night- yay :)

    have a great day- tim
  3. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

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    Hey Mr. Action,
    Mr. D beat me to it, although the JPGs that he posted shows the Distributor having only ONE Wire, while the Unit that is here has THREE Wires in a flexible protective cover, and a Three Male Pin Connector on their ends. Will get you a JPG of that later.

    Remembering back to 1989, when the Oil Galleries that lubricate the Lifters weren't plugged: Before THAT was discovered, the guys at Ernie's Motors postulated that the Oil Pump was maybe a "wimp" (that was the word Ernie used). So a High Volume Oil Pump was installed.

    The Distributor wasn't removed to do THAT.

    The Engine was put back on the Engine Stand, turned upside down, the Oil Pan, and Windage Tray were removed, the (supposedly) "wimpy" Oil Pump was taken out, and the High Volume Oil Pump was installed.

    In thinking about it now, THAT procedure would have almost CERTAINLY predicated that the Oil Pump Shaft have the Wave Washer on it. Am having a good feeling about THAT.

    While I don't remember if THAT was done ORIGINALLY, it most CERTAINLY would have been the way it was done when the "wimpy" Oil Pump was removed, and the NEW High Volume Oil Pump was installed.

    All right. Am feeling even better about THIS.

    IIRC, there wasn't any difficulty replacing the "wimpy" Oil Pump and installing the High Volume Oil Pump.

    Intend to prepare the 3.14 for the Distributor Swap by putting the Damper at Zero TDC, BEFORE removing the Pertronix Ignitor III Equipped Distributor. And will not crank till AFTER the NEW AutoZone Duralast Gold Distributor is installed.

    Hopefully THIS will be the eventuality. Will just have to wait and see how it goes. In any case, if everything doesn't go as smoothly as it should, no further action will be taken without first consulting about what to do next.

    Nicely stated.

    Hopefully we won't have to do this.

    Again. Hopefully we won't have to do this.

    Not at all. Your taking the time to expostulate is GREATLY appreciated. And what you wrote is understood.

    It's COLD here this morning. 33 degrees, feels like 29 degrees. Should be warm enough to be out by 11:00 a.m.

    Will, in the meantime, be getting out and about in Lorrie to run some errands, and do some grocery shopping. Am, if there is enough energy and focus left, be installing the Autolite 4100. Then will begin the work on the Manual Choke Push/Pull Cable.

    If THAT goes as smoothly as anticipated, we should be able to do all that is necessary (re-gap Spark Plugs, re-install cleaned Distributor Cap, re-install Spark Plug Cables, and Looms on the Valve Covers) tomorrow to prepare to start the 3.14 to see how the NEW Manual Choke Mechanism functions on Wednesday.

    Summit Racing has sent a notification E-Mail that the NEW HEI Ignition Coil has shipped, and should be here no later than tomorrow.

    Anyway, am hoping that things will continue to go smoothly. Working at a more leisurely pace is certainly more enjoyable than having to rush to meet a deadline.
    Will let you know how everything goes.

    JC
  4. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

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    Hey Tim,
    Yes. In fact, it fits down into a recess between the Intake Manifold Runners as it was designed to be there! Also, once installed, it is easy to access. Before when it was a Hex Head Bolt, a small Box End Wrench was used to turn the Bolt. Then it was discovered that the Threads in that Hole were the same threads as on an Idle Mixture Screw. The Idle Mixture Screw in the JPG is from an OLD junk MotorCraft Carburetor. Ground down the point as shown in the JPG. Because the Head on the Screw is knurled, one can use a gloved hand to do the adjusting. It has to be a "gloved hand" because the Screw gets HOT pretty quickly.

    Not even close! It's actually quite roomy and easily accessible.

    Actually, the Cut Off Wheel had a pretty big diameter. Had to wear it down to a smaller diameter, so just got a File, and ran the Cutting Wheel on it very lightly. the File is MUCH harder than the Cutting Wheel, and it took the Cutting Wheel Diameter down to where it wouldn't cut a BIG, WIDE Slot across the appendage through which the Threaded Hole passes.

    The problem that we had with THAT, was the Bolt that broke off in the Exhaust Manifold Ear was rusted in, and while we could get a Screwdriver Blade in there, when we tried to turn it, it would bend the Screw Driver Blade, or if the Blade was a "hardened" material, it would BREAK it.

    Quite a few years ago! See your memory isn't all THAT bad! :)

    "Lose a lot of timing"?

    With the idle speed being controlled by the Secondaries, we'll not have any Vacuum Advance involved. We'll only be dealing with Centrifugal Advance which is controlled by the Engine speed.

    Don't know what the NEW Duralast Distributor's Centrifugal Advance Curve is, but because the Initial Timing is done with the Vacuum Advance clamped closed with the Hemostats, there's no Vacuum Advance involved anyway.

    Am going to set the Initial Timing at 12 degrees BTDC at 650 RPM. If that isn't high enough to cause any Centrifugal Advance, THAT would be GREAT! We'd be at 12 degrees BTDC without ANY Advance at all.

    Then when the Primaries are opened and the RPMs start to go up, we'd get Centrifugal Advance, and after THAT we'd get Vacuum Advance.

    When you say "High Idle Screw", to which Screw are you referring. There is the "Secondary Adjusting Screw" (pictured), there is the "Fast Idle Screw" that is actuated by the Cam on the Manual Choke, and there is the "Curb Idle Screw" on the Throttle Lever Mechanism.

    The Secondary Adjusting Screw will be adjusted to make the Secondaries supplying Fuel and Air at NORMAL HOT IDLE.

    The Fast Idle Screw following the Choke Cam will open the Primaries when the Choke is Closed at COLD START UP to assure that there is enough Fuel and Air to make it to where the Throttle doesn't have to be tended to keep the 3.14 from dying till it is at operating temperature.

    Once at operating temperature, the Choke will be OPENED, and Fuel/Air needed for HOT IDLE will be supplied by the Secondaries. Once the 3.14 is warmed up and idling on the Secondaries, then to accelerate, or slow down, the Throttle will open or close the Primaries.

    The Curb Idle Screw will not be used to adjust the HOT IDLE speed.

    Am I missing something here? Is "ported vacuum" necessary for "idle quality"?

    The Initial Timing is set with the Vacuum Line to the Vacuum Advance Canister clamped off. And the idle speed is set without any Vacuum Advance.

    Isn't the only time that Vacuum Advance is needed is when the RPMS are either GOING UP, or are already UP? If the Vacuum Advance is necessary at Idle, how come it is clamped off when setting Initial Timing and Hot Idle?

    Well, at only "half awake" you STILL know more about this than I do!

    It WOULD be a GREAT day if it wasn't so friggin' COLD! Weather Guessers are saying it's supposed to get up to 50 degrees, but THAT won't happen till between 1:00 and 2:00 p.m.! And then it's supposed to rain tomorrow!

    Anyway, have got to get myself together to go run errands.

    Hope YOU are well.

    JC
  5. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

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    Hey All,
    Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Morning Update:

    It's already warmer here at almost 3:00 a.m. than it was yesterday at 2:00 p.m.!

    There's no rain predicted for today, and so have scheduled: The re-installation of the Autolite 4100 Carburetor, and the fabrication and installation of the Push/Pull Bracket and Cable.

    Was going to pull and re-gap the Spark Plugs, but harkening back to what 70XL said the other day about changing only one thing at a time, have decided to just re-install the newly cleaned Spark Plug Cables, and Distributor Cap, and THEN see if the 3.14 will start. Hopefully the NEW Manual Choke Mechanism will have improved the Cold Start and Idle situation.

    The 3.14 was running relatively smoothly when it was last shut down. Hopefully she will start this next time.

    Yesterday was not only cold, but it was somewhat of a waste due to having a Phone Line that was COMPLETELY dead, and an Internet Line that was intermittently IFFY.

    Mike, the Eastex Lineman found the problem. It was at a connection on the Utility Pole at the Street. He said that it was a victim of time and the weather. He fixed it, and now the Phone and Internet are working as advertised.

    BUT, not knowing when Mike would show up (he finally got here at about 4:40 p.m.) yesterday, I was stuck in the Computer room, having to content myself with straightening up the clutter that seems to proliferate while doing OTHER stuff.

    Am going to be calling Keith at the Livingston NAPA today to see what he thinks should be done about Lorrie Van Haul's NAPA Legend 75 Battery. It seems to function all right unless it is left sitting for a weekend. Then it doesn't have enough Voltage (Amperage?) to start Lorrie's MIGHTY 225 Slant Six without putting the Battery Charger on it at 6 Amps for four hours.

    Anyway, at this point, everything is basically just details. Everything has to be done little-by-little, step-by-step, bit-by-bit. Nothing that is especially difficult, but just time, energy, and focus consuming with very little evident results.

    Will keep you all updated if, when, and as progress occurs.

    JC
  6. Action

    Action Moderator Staff Member Respected Member

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    Vacuum advance is taken from a slotted port in the carb primaries. Typically that port is just above the throttle plate at idle. If that is the case there is NO vacuum advance signal. If the carb idle speed has been raised that slot will have some vacuum signal. Once the throttle is just opening the port is exposed to vacuum. As the throttle opens more, all of the slot is exposed to vacuum. Finally when the throttle is about 3/4 open there is little to no vacuum signal left because the throttle is so far open.

    The purpose of vacuum advance is generally greater fuel economy. (Short answer)

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
  7. Action

    Action Moderator Staff Member Respected Member

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    The other possibility for the slant six is a small electrical drain. A rather EZ test to make.

    >>>>>>>>>>>Action
  8. redrag

    redrag Active Member

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    vacuum advance port can be uncovered at idle when the cam is bigger than stock, requiring more airflow . that is where adjusting the secondaries comes in
  9. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

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    Hey Mr. Action,
    As a preface to this response, want to note one thing: On the 3.14's Autolite 4100, there is NO Slotted Port in the Throats of the Primaries.

    There are rather a number of small Holes, seen HERE:
    VAC01.jpg
    The Hole closest to the EDGE of the Throat is what the Idle Mixture Screw controls.

    The three closely bunched Holes (am assuming here) are there in place of, and perform the same function as the "slotted port" YOU mentioned in your first paragraph above).

    Have found that the largest Hole shown HERE:
    VAC03.jpg Is connected by this Passage:
    VAC04.jpg To this Port (in the lower right hand corner):
    VAC05.jpg This is the Port FROM which the Vacuum Line to the Distributor's Vacuum Canister gets its Vacuum.

    When the Primary Throttle Plates are COMPLETELY CLOSED, there are only TWO and a HALF of those Holes exposed to the Vacuum in the Intake Manifold:

    1. The Idle Mixture Hole.
    2. The of the Three Holes that function as does Mr. Action's Slot.
    3. The Hole that provides the Vacuum to the Distributor's Vacuum Advance Canister.

    Here is a view of the Two and a Half OPEN Holes when the Primary Throttle Plates are CLOSED:
    VAC02.jpg
    So it would seem that the REALITY is: That even with the Primary Throttle Plates COMPLETELY CLOSED, there is ONE of the Three Little Holes (seen in the first JPG) that is STILL open, and about HALF of the slightly larger Hole (also seen in the first JPG) that is open, along with the Idle Mixture Hole.

    It appears that there is, in actuality, NO WAY to get ABSOLUTELY NO VACUUM signal to the Distributor's Vacuum Advance Canister.

    BUT let's not let THAT deter us from postulating... :)

    When the Primary Throttle Plates are COMPLETELY CLOSED, and the Engine is idling, there will be (essentially) no Vacuum Advance Signal to the Distributor.

    Some might ask: "If the Primary Throttle Plates are CLOSED, how can the Engine be idling?"

    Well, THAT'S where the Bolt that adjusts the Secondary Throttle Plate Shaft Lever comes in. By adjusting THAT Bolt (in the instance of the 3.14's Autolite 4100 that Bolt is an Idle Mixture Screw from an old MotorCraft Carburetor) the Engine can be made to idle using Air and Fuel from the Secondaries.

    BUT, there is another nuance at work here: In order to have enough Air and Fuel to permit the 3.14 to run at a FAST IDLE upon Cold Start Up, the Manual Choke Cam activates the Primary Throttle Plate Shaft by means of the Fast Idle Adjustment Screw which follows the Manual Choke Cam, and OPENS the Primary Throttle Plates. The amount of opening is adjustable using the Fast Idle Lever Adjusting Screw.

    Yes. BUT, only if the Curb Idle Speed is being adjusted by using the Curb Idle Screw on the Throttle Mechanism connected to the Accelerator.

    If the Curb Idle Speed is raised by using the Secondary Throttle Plate Shaft Lever Screw, there will STILL be (little to) NO Vacuum Signal to the Vacuum Advance Canister on the Distributor.

    Yes.

    Yes.

    Hmmm. A couple of questions: At Wide Open Primary Throttle, is there NO Vacuum Signal being sent to the Distributor's Vacuum Advance Canister?

    At Wide Open Primary Throttle, the Secondary Throttle Plates open to provide even MORE Air and Fuel. From whence does the Secondary Throttle Plate Vacuum actuated Diaphragm get its Vacuum?

    Yes.

    Anyway, today is going to be another somewhat wasted day as regards work on Ms. American. It is cold and drizzling here. But all is not lost. The FD478 Ignition Coil is scheduled to arrive today. AND there is still clutter to organize. Feline Litter Boxes to change, and naps to be taken.

    Hope this finds you all doing well.

    JC
  10. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

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    Hey Mr. Action,
    Have ruled out a "small electrical drain" by means of disconnecting the Quick Disconnect Switch on the Battery's Negative Pole, so that the Battery is NOT "seeing" Lorrie's Electrical System.

    JC
  11. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

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    Hey Randy,
    Apparently so!

    The Vacuum Port that is supplying the 3.14's Distributor' Vacuum Canister is "seeing" whatever Vacuum is in the Intake Manifold ALL THE TIME!

    JC
  12. Action

    Action Moderator Staff Member Respected Member

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    OK

    >>>>>>>>>>>Action
  13. redrag

    redrag Active Member

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    your secondary throttle plates get opened by venturie vacuum as opposed to vacuum created by piston movement. notice the little tube stuck into one of the booster venturies. thats the pick up for vacuum to the sec. diaphragm.
    at wot(wide open throttle) there will be a couple of inches of vacuum, but at wot vacuum advance is not wanted because there is a train coming and you need the car to go. gas milage isn't important
  14. redrag

    redrag Active Member

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    your throttle plates ' Should 'close all the way with the speed screw backed off
  15. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

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    Hey Mr. Action,
    That's it? LOL

    JC
    Action likes this.
  16. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

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    Hey Randy,
    Who woulda thunk!

    You mean THIS one?:
    SECVAC01.jpg
    That little tube connects to THIS Channel that goes to the Secondary Diaphram Housing:
    SECVAC02.jpg
    Which ends HERE at the Secondary Diaphragm Housing:
    SECVAC03.jpg
    That's understandable! :)

    All right, we've gotten THAT cleared up. Now, would you happen to know what THIS thing is, and what does IT do? Inquiring minds want to know!
    WHAZIZ.jpg
    Just a few minutes ago, there came a rap, rap, rapping at the door. I got there just in time to see this very nice lady retreating back to her delivery van, and right in front of the door was a package with "Summit Racing" written on it. Am assuming that this is the FD478 Ignition Coil that was ordered a week ago. It had to be back-ordered, and that is why it didn't arrive with the other stuff.

    So things are moving along at a bewildering pace. NOW, if the weather would just straighten up!

    Anyway, hope you all are well.

    JC
  17. Action

    Action Moderator Staff Member Respected Member

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    ^^^^^ That valve in the last pic is a bi-metallic strip. It opens at a pre-determined temperature to create a designed vacuum leak. Once open that vacuum leak will increase engine RPM to cool down the engine and decrease fuel percolation. It is another piece to prevent or control overheating.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>Action
  18. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

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    Hey Randy,
    Here are a couple of JPGs. This first one shows the Curb Idle Screw backed all the way off:
    SCRWOUT1.jpg
    And this JPG shows the position of the Primary Throttle Plate(s) with the Screw backed all the way out:
    VAC02.jpg
    Wouldn't it be better if those two Holes nearest the Throttle Plate were on the OTHER SIDE of the Throttle Plate which would be accomplished by having the Throttle Plate Shaft rotated so that the Throttle Plates covered the holes?

    JC
  19. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

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    Hey Mr. Action,
    Who woulda thunk? Have wondered a number of times what it was for.

    How does a "vacuum leak" increase engine RPM?

    Anyway, have to say that this is the most understanding of how everything on an Autolite Carburetor works that I've ever had. Thanks to everyone.

    JC
  20. Action

    Action Moderator Staff Member Respected Member

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    All vacuum leaks increase engine RPM.

    On your ride, if you start the engine, warm it up then disconnect & plug the vacuum advance line. Note the engine RPM. Then unplug that same line and do not connect it. Note that the engine RPM increased.

    The above example isn't totally accurate because the distributor vacuum advance gets the vacuum signal from carb venturi.

    That same scenario can be done with a intake manifold vacuum. (and it can make a greater difference) I just don't know where you have an intake manifold vacuum fitting.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

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