1. Welcome to FordForumsOnline! Our community is here to help you with any questions you have related to your Ford. If you are looking for a friendly community to hang out with other Ford owners you can look no further than our forums here! Registering is easy and free!

The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 HEI Ignition System Caper

Discussion in 'Ford Galaxie' started by JCAllison, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Onalaska, Texas
    Hey Mr. D,
    Me too, but the reality is that it won't even budge, leave alone come off.

    The Rotor is pushed on so far that there is not even enough clearance between the BOTTOM of the Rotor, and the TOP of the Reluctor to get even the sharp edge of a Number 11 Exacto Blade into it. It was obviously FORCED on.

    Thanks for the reference. It amazes me that YOU, and Mr. Action know how to find stuff this kind of stuff.

    Anyway, was going to install the Autolite 4100 today, but the temperature out there is just above freezing. Everything happens when it's supposed to. Nothing outdoors is supposed to happen when it's just above freezing here!"

    Maybe tomorrow.

    Thanks again for the reference.

    JC
  2. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Onalaska, Texas
    Hey All,
    Sunday, February 11, 2018, Late Mid-Afternoon Update:

    Am sitting here trying to figure out how to get the Rotor off of the AutoZone Duralast Gold Distributor. Have tried rocking it back and forth, but that only flexes the top "cross-bar". It doesn't do anything to the cylindrical part that has apparently been forced down over the top of the Shaft just above the Reluctor.

    Here is a JPG of the Cylindrical Part sitting ever so close to the Reluctor:
    AZDISRO01.jpg
    That teenincy space just above the Reluctor is ever so tight! So tight that not even the edge of a Number 11 Exacto Blade can fit into it.

    Would it hurt anything to put a bit of Kroil into that space? Kroil is supposed to be able to get into even the smallest of spaces and lubricate them.

    There doesn't appear to be any electronic stuff near that location.

    Looked down inside the MSD Rotor, and there is a "registry boss" there. Here is a JPG of THAT:
    AZDISRO02.jpg
    It is obvious that the Rotor should be able to be removed or they wouldn't have included that registry boss to make sure it gets put back in the proper position.

    Don't think that Kroil would hurt the Plastic, and as you can see, there's nothing inside the Rotor's Cylindrical part that would suffer from having some Kroil put on it.

    Whaddaya think?

    JC
  3. Dominick 1

    Dominick 1 Well-Known Member Respected Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2014
    Messages:
    2,827
    Likes Received:
    319
    Location:
    Parkersburg Wv
    I've never used it
    I've read where it is for metal only and some people say it will work on plastic
    Call that number I gave you
  4. redrag

    redrag Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    546
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    land of fruit and nuts
    if you're not going to use that rotor, break it with big pliers.
  5. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Onalaska, Texas
    Hey All,
    Sunday, February 11, 2018, Later Mid-Afternoon Update:

    Put just a couple of drops of Kroil on the interstice between the Reluctor and the Rotor.

    Made sure that the Magnetic Pick-up was ABOVE where the Kroil was going.

    Let it sit for a couple of minutes, and then gave the Rotor a bit of rocking back and forth.

    Looked at the interstice, and it had WIDENED enough to get a pretty sharp Screwdriver into the newly formed GAP.

    Gave the little Screwdriver a twist and the Rotor moved upward!

    Grasped it, and gave it a tug, and it came right off!

    Here is what was INSIDE the Rotor:
    AZDISRO03.jpg
    Subsequently tried to put the MSD Large Distributor Cap Rotor onto the Shaft, and it wouldn't go!

    Used a Number 11 Exacto Blade to shave a bit of a chamfer on the inner edge, and tried it again.

    IT WENT RIGHT ON!

    The Boss inside the MSD Rotor fit down into the Slot shown above, and the Bottom of the MSD Rotor doesn't go all the way down to the Reluctor.

    It sits higher as can be seen in the next two JPGs:
    AZDISRO04.jpg
    AZDISRO05.jpg
    Am hoping that the height of the Rotor is correct for the Large Distributor Cap Adapter. It looks to be about right. Will have to wait and see.

    It appears that some progress was made today.

    BTW, got the Push/Pull Cable Mounting Bracket that goes under the Left side of the Dash cleaned with a Wire Brush Wheel in the Electric Drill.

    It needs to be dressed down with the Bench Grinder, and then painted.

    When it is dry, it will be ready for installation as soon as the weather warms, which the Weather Guessers are saying will be TOMORROW!

    Anyway, will keep you all updated if, when, and as progress occurs.

    JC
  6. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Onalaska, Texas
    Hey Mr. D,
    Kroil is probably the BEST penetrating oil.

    It took only a couple of drop of with the Distributor up-side-down so that the Kroil would only go down into the Rotor.

    Kroil has VERY low viscosity, and the capillary action would have distributed it all around between the Slotted Shaft and the inside of the Cylindrical part of the Rotor. It, nonetheless worked, and the Rotor came off posthaste.

    Then the Kroil was very carefully wiped off of the Shaft and out of the Rotor with a Viva Paper Towel.

    Figured that it was Sunday and they probably wouldn't be there. BUT... would you believe that yesterday, it was found that the Phone next to The Scalder Computer wasn't working?

    That phone line is the one to which the DSL Modem is connected, and the ISP has been have frequent and intermittent interruptions for the past few days. It may be that there is something going on with that line.

    When it was found that the Phone wasn't working, I took it to another line and plugged it in and found that there is nothing wrong with the phone itself. Brought another Phone and plugged it in to the non-functioning line, and it didn't work there either. Put a new Cable into the system, but that didn't help. So am going to call the phone co-op and have them find out what is going on.

    Anyway, have just received an E-Mail from Summit Racing saying that the Ignition Coil has shipped from their Texas Warehouse. It should be here later today, or tomorrow. So everything seems to be all right.

    JC
  7. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Onalaska, Texas
    Hey Randy,
    Didn't have to do that. A couple of drops of Kroil, and it came right off!

    Am thinking that maybe the Duralast Rotor will fit Lorrie's Distributor if she ever NEEDS a NEW Rotor.

    JC
  8. Action

    Action Moderator Staff Member Respected Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    6,245
    Likes Received:
    617
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ 85008
    Typically 8 cylinder rotors won't work on 6 cylinder systems.

    >>>>>>>>>>>Action
  9. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Onalaska, Texas
    Hey Mr. Action.
    Thought it looked about the right size. Oh well...

    JC
  10. 70XL

    70XL Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    SK, Canada
    I am very pleased with my Pertonix Ignitor System. I have the II, not the III, but the only difference seems to be the module. I didn't need the multiple spark and rev limiter, and I'm pretty sure Ms. American doesn't need either. I don't think there is any reason to think that the trigger generator that indexes on the points cam is any less reliable, less accurate, or less anything, than anything else. At this point I don't recall if it is an optical trigger, or hall effect trigger, but I don't think that really matters. I run an Accel Super Coil, but it is only rated at 45KVA, not the 60KVA of your Flamethrower Coil. I just have the original small rotor cap and have never experienced anything like spark scatter, or whatever the larger diameter cap was designed to fix. The only time my ignition was unreliable was when the bushings in the distributor were worn to the point that the dwell would disappear intermittently and cause the spark to not spark. This was long before the Pertronix installation. A new distributor, an Autolite remanufactured unit, and all was good. I'm all for for tinkering and modifying for the fun of it, but I think I can see why Action like to keep his stuff stock, for stock reliability and ease of repair.

    When I improved the timing marks on my damper I did it from underneath. I highlighted the points I was interested in with some paint, probably similar to your sign paint. I added marks beyond the markings on the damper by using my calipers as a divider. A silver Sharpie, or gold in your case, could be a good marking tool, but I know you would have lots of paint available around your place. I can't imagine removing the damper being a simpler, easier, or quicker way, but I appreciate that is seldom your motivation for anything.;):D
  11. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Onalaska, Texas
    Hey 70XL,
    The Pertronix Ignitor III was just the "latest" one out there. Didn't REALLY become aware of everything. Just happened to, at the time, be able to give Ms. American a NEW Ignition System, and Pertronix had been recommended by Summit. And Pertronix recommended the Flamethrower HC Coil. Just figured that they know that about which they were talking.

    Again, it seemed to just be the "latest" thing, and again, I figured that they were in the business of doing this kind of thing so just went along with their recommendations.

    It just seemed to me that it was a kind of "rigged up" thing, but again, I figured that they knew what they were doing. Also, at this point, they MAY actually be all right, but my experience with Distributors has been when both Lorrie and Ms. American had Points&Condenser System, they worked, but took a lot of tending and adjusting. Then along comes the "Big Three" HEI System, recommended by some VERY astute people over on the Slant Six Forum, and so I decided to give it a try. And it worked GREAT! Much better than Ms. American's Points&Condenser System.

    Lorrie began to Start INSTANTLY, and Idle IMMEDIATELY. Wanted THAT for Ms. American too. So taking the recommendations from some VERY astute FE people, decided to give Pertronix a try.

    Alas. it didn't do for the old Gal what the "Big Three" did for Lorrie. In fact it opened a whole NEW can of worms with such involved things as Rotor Phasing, and Spark Scatter, which had never happened to ANY of my vehicles EVER.

    It uses the Hall Effect, and so does the Big Three System

    It apparently doesn't.

    Really, the reason that the Flamethrower HC was gotten was because Pertronix said it was intended for the Ignitor III.

    When the 3.14 was rebuilt in 1989, a Large Cap Distributor was gotten at the recommendation of Howard Williams who was supervising MY rebuilding of the 3.14.

    Had, during doing the research on a NEW Distributor for Ms. American, read a bunch of reviews, and comments on threads on various OTHER Auto Forums, and they seldom had anything GOOD to say about remanufactured Electronic equipment.

    There was a time a while back when I was trying to do the same thing with Ms. American. But the change from Points&Condenser to the Big Three HEI System so TRANSFORMED Lorrie that I wanted it to do the same thing for Ms. American. The first step in THAT direction was Pertronix.

    What I have in mind for the 3.14's Damper can't be done without having here on the Bench where I can see it REALLY well. My eyesight has gotten to be REALLY BAD. Any close work HAS to be done with a 10X Magnifying Head Set. I just can't get close enough to the INSTALLED Damper from over the Radiator, or from Under the Bumper. Anyway, when the Damper is finished like I want it, will post some JPGs.

    The Phone Repairman was just here. I told him that the DSL Line is intermittent, and that the Phone Line is completely fritzed. He checked the Box out on the West Wall, and said: "The DSL Line is marginal, but the Phone line was completely inoperative." He said he was going to back track till he found where the problem is. And off he went. He'll be back.

    Anyway, I see that the Green Light is on indicating that the Internet it ON. Will send that NOW.

    Take Care.

    JC
  12. redrag

    redrag Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    546
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    land of fruit and nuts
    it is not a hal effect eec III is. it is a magnetic inductance sys
  13. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Onalaska, Texas
    Hey Randy,
    Don't know about the Pertronix II, but the Pertronix Ignitor III is advertised as using the Hall Effect.

    http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/flame/dist/billet.aspx

    See the second paragraph under "Features".

    JC
  14. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Onalaska, Texas
    Hey Mr. Action,
    YOU wrote:
    Here are a couple of JPGs:
    AZDIS01.jpg
    AZDIS02.jpg
    JC
  15. 70XL

    70XL Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    SK, Canada
    I'd have some concerns, as well, with reman'd electronic equipment. The distributor I acquired was a standard, stock replacement points distributor that a number of years later was modified with the Ignitor II points replacement setup. Something that I just read today indicates that the Ignitor II has a built in 4 degree retard during start up to reduce starter stress from higher compression engines. Hmm?

  16. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Onalaska, Texas
    Hey 70XL,
    Found one discussion where a fellow said he had worked for a well known Distributor remanufacturing company, where all they did was clean the units that came in as "cores", put new points and condensers in them, then rebox them and send them out. :(

  17. Dominick 1

    Dominick 1 Well-Known Member Respected Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2014
    Messages:
    2,827
    Likes Received:
    319
    Location:
    Parkersburg Wv
    You can look at the distributor body and see if has marks on it for being new or used
    for your own comfort call that number I gave you
  18. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Onalaska, Texas
    Hey Mr. D,
    No, no... This Duralast Gold Distributor is OBVIOUSLY NEW. It is just fine.

    70XL and I were discussing "remanufactured" equipment.

    When doing the research to find a NEW Duraspark Distributor, there were only THREE brands available. The Duralast Gold from AutoZone was the nicest one of the bunch. It was also the priciest.

    JC
  19. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Onalaska, Texas
    Hey All,
    Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Late Afternoon Update:

    The LX301 GM style 4-Pin Control Module apparently can get quite hot during operation. This then requires that the LX301 be mounted on a Heat Sink to dissipate the heat.

    Ordered an ACDelco Number 10474610 Heat Sink. This is EXACTLY the same Heat Sink that was used in Lorrie Van Haul's HEI System. When each of them arrived, it was found that each had TWO Lower Fins, and FIVE Upper Fins. Also, the Holes are PRECISELY spaced to fit the Holes in the LX301 Control Module.

    Alas, there was in both instances a problem. The FIFTH Fin kept the Holes in the Control Module from lining up. So in both instances, the FIFTH Fin had to be surgically removed. This surgery was done with the Craftsman RotoTool, and a Cutting Wheel. Upon finishing the cutting, there was then some filing that needed to be done.

    Here is a JPG of the now FOUR Finned Heat Sink.
    HEATSINK.jpg The LX301 4-Pin Control Module is mounted on this Heat Sink with a bit of Dimethylpolysiloxane Paste which acts as a Heat Conductor between the Control Module and the Heat Sink.

    Here is a JPG of what the LX301 4-Pin Control Module looks like sitting on the Heat Sink with the Holes lined up.
    HEATCONT.jpg
    There is another piece of Aluminum Angle that has to be fabricated in order to mount the Heat Sink and Control Module on the FD478 Ignition Coil.

    The same Bolts that hold the LX301 to the Heat Sink will also hold the Aluminum Angle to the Back of the Heat Sink.

    The Right Angle Flange of the Aluminum Angle, will then be bolted to the FD478 Ignition Coil.

    Since that has not yet been fabricated, will here supply a JPG of Lorrie Van Haul's HEI System to give you some idea of how this will look:
    heicomp03.jpg
    Here is another view of this assembly showing the Under Side:
    heicomp04.jpg
    The inclement weather here has cleared up. There are scattered clouds, but the heavy overcast is gone.

    The Weather Guessers are saying that there will be clouds tomorrow, but no rain, and the temperatures will be in the upper 60s and lower 70s. Should be a nice day.

    Going to try to get the Push/Pull Cable Bracket and Cable installed and connected to the Mustangs Etc. Manual Choke Mechanism

    As you can see, it's not like there's nothing to do around here.

    Anyway, will keep you all updated if, when, and as progress occurs.

    JC
  20. JCAllison

    JCAllison Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Onalaska, Texas
    Hey All,
    Thursday, February 15, 2018, Morning Update:

    Have been busy this morning finding all the stuff (Bolts, Washers, Lock Washers, Nuts, Drill Bits, and etc.) with which to do the installation of the Push/Pull Bracket and Cable for the Mustangs Etc. Manual Choke Conversion on the 3.14's Autolite 4100 Carburetor.

    While looking for all THAT stuff, found a Large Distributor Cap Adapter that I didn't remember having!

    WOW!

    Got out the MSD Large Distributor Cap, and it snapped right on.

    Got out the AutoZone Duralast Gold Distributor, removed the Distributor Cap only to find that the newly found Large Distributor Cap Adapter's small end doesn't fit the Duralast Gold Distributor! :(

    File this situation under "Why Can't Anything Be Easy?"

    Went in search of a properly fitting Large Distributor Cap Adapter that would fit a Duralast Gold BDLG-FD46 Distributor on its SMALL end, and an MSD 5504 Large Distributor Cap on its LARGE end.

    First place to look was AutoZone because Duralast is THEIR Brand. All they say is that they have the PROPER Distributor Cap for the BDLG-FD4 Distributor. But there is already one of them HERE. It is not a Large Cap, and has Female Socket Connectors, while Ms. American's Spark Plug Cables are for HEI Male Connectors.

    Then found THIS page:

    https://www.ebay.com/i/222755713808?chn=ps

    Problem being, there is no information as to what Adapter will fit the Duralast Gold Distributor AND the MSD Distributor Cap. Am going to contact the seller and explain the situation and see if the seller can come up with a solution.

    Ran into this a similar problem with Lorrie Van Haul's Distributor Cap. No one makes a Male HEI Connector Distributor Cap for a 225 Slant Six Distributor. In searching for a solution, found THIS:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=fem...i39j69i59j0.5596j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    They have worked well, but am afraid that they would be too tall to fit under Ms. Amerian's Hood, and might not permit the use of the Enclosed Air Filter when it came time for inspection.

    So WHAT TO DO NOW?

    Any suggestions?

    Have been up since 11:00 p.m. last night. Am going to go to back to bed till about 8:00 a.m., then get up and clean up the cat's mess. By that time, the fog here might be cleared and we can then do the work of installing the Push/Pull Bracket and Cable.

    Anyway, will keep you all updated if, when, and as progress occurs.

    JC

Share This Page