[aws1963]

Well, after the BS at the other site, I will try this one!

3.0L engine that while driving went "poof" and died. Got it running again, but just enough to limp the 2 blocks home. Day before I was over 600 miles away! Lucky it happened when it did for sure.

Here's whats happening now:

1. Pulled plugs and #2,#5 and #6 were black from carbon fouling. Others looked fine. They were replaced less that 1200 miles ago.
2. Idle is rough! Definite gas smell from exaust. Sounds like a diesel.

Things I have done to this point:

1. AIC - replaced gasket and cleaned with brake cleaner.
2. EGR - looks ok, replaced gasket. Will test tonight to see if I can make vacuum work on it.
3. Vacuum leaks, can't find one anywhere! Hoses look good. Fitings all snap good.
4. Replaced upper manifold gaskets.
5. Pulled both after 02 sensors to look for damage. None noted.
6. Pulled first muffler after 3rd CAT to look for debris. Not a thing in it. Then seperated Cat from flex pipe and looked in front. Clean screen and no debris.
7. Checked all COP's for 12v. Tested both "hot and ground" for open and none noted. All tested 12v.
8. Tested all injectors for resistance in place. All were within the 11.3 - 11.5 Ohm range.
9. Pulled PCV valve and hose. Both looked good.
10. Had wife hide all flamable liquids as I am ready to douse this sucker and watch it burn! :mad5:

I see BogHog is here. Thanks for your help at the other site before it desinigrated and I lost what you suggested.

I can't get it running good enough to idle on its own without keeping some throttle on it. I keep wondering if its PCM, Injectors, COPS, or ? I think the CATS are still good as I don't have any debris in the system. Guess they could be plugged up, but would have figured to find something!

Took a 40% pay cut to stay employed, so I don't have the $ to replace any unnecessary parts.

Thanks for any advice

 

[Boghog]

Here's whats happening now:

1. Pulled plugs and #2,#5 and #6 were black from carbon fouling. Others looked fine. They were replaced less that 1200 miles ago. The black tips are an indication of plugs not firing correctly and possibly a rich condition.
2. Idle is rough! Definite gas smell from exaust. Sounds like a diesel. Could be plugs misfiring.

Things I have done to this point:

1. AIC - replaced gasket and cleaned with brake cleaner.
2. EGR - looks ok, replaced gasket. Will test tonight to see if I can make vacuum work on it.
3. Vacuum leaks, can't find one anywhere! Hoses look good. Fitings all snap good.Try carb cleaner at the bas of thr lower intake.There are o-ring seals there and they shrink with age.
4. Replaced upper manifold gaskets.
5. Pulled both after 02 sensors to look for damage. None noted.
6. Pulled first muffler after 3rd CAT to look for debris. Not a thing in it.Thats because the material can't get by it Then seperated Cat from flex pipe and looked in front. Clean screen and no debris.
Try running engine with rear cat separated from flex pipe.
7. Checked all COP's for 12v. Tested both "hot and ground" for open and none noted. All tested 12v.
You need to check resistance for primary and secondary windings of coils.
8. Tested all injectors for resistance in place. All were within the 11.3 - 11.5 Ohm range.
9. Pulled PCV valve and hose. Both looked good.
10. Had wife hide all flamable liquids as I am ready to douse this sucker and watch it burn! :mad5:Good idea

I see BogHog is here. Thanks for your help at the other site before it desinigrated and I lost what you suggested.

I can't get it running good enough to idle on its own without keeping some throttle on it. I keep wondering if its PCM, Injectors, COPS, or ? I think the CATS are still good as I don't have any debris in the system. Guess they could be plugged up, but would have figured to find something!

There is a TSB about 2005 tributes,escapes and mariners where wrong oem plugs will take out the coils and possibly the PCM.I don't have it off the top of my head but can get if if you need.Start with these few things and get back to me with results.P/S intake gasket set is about $8.00.

 

[Boghog]

Here's the TSB

 

[Poppy]

Here's a thread on how to test COPS
http://www.fordforumsonline.com/forum/engine-drivetrain/97-check-ignition-coil-plug-type-coil.html

 

[Poppy]

Here are some tips for checking for vacuum leaks

http://www.fordforumsonline.com/forum/engine-drivetrain/94-locate-vacuum-leak.html

 

[aws1963]

Here's whats happening now:

1. Pulled plugs and #2,#5 and #6 were black from carbon fouling. Others looked fine. They were replaced less that 1200 miles ago. The black tips are an indication of plugs not firing correctly and possibly a rich condition.
2. Idle is rough! Definite gas smell from exaust. Sounds like a diesel. Could be plugs misfiring.

Things I have done to this point:

1. AIC - replaced gasket and cleaned with brake cleaner.
2. EGR - looks ok, replaced gasket. Will test tonight to see if I can make vacuum work on it.
3. Vacuum leaks, can't find one anywhere! Hoses look good. Fitings all snap good.Try carb cleaner at the bas of thr lower intake.There are o-ring seals there and they shrink with age.

Did this and did not notice any change in engine rpm.

4. Replaced upper manifold gaskets.
5. Pulled both after 02 sensors to look for damage. None noted.
6. Pulled first muffler after 3rd CAT to look for debris. Not a thing in it.Thats because the material can't get by it Then seperated Cat from flex pipe and looked in front. Clean screen and no debris.
Try running engine with rear cat separated from flex pipe.

Did this and although it sounded like a harley, nothing came out and there was no noticable difference in engine (other than noise).

7. Checked all COP's for 12v. Tested both "hot and ground" for open and none noted. All tested 12v.
You need to check resistance for primary and secondary windings of coils.

I see Poppy posted some info on testing (thanks). Will do that.

8. Tested all injectors for resistance in place. All were within the 11.3 - 11.5 Ohm range.
9. Pulled PCV valve and hose. Both looked good.
10. Had wife hide all flamable liquids as I am ready to douse this sucker and watch it burn! :mad5:Good idea

Actually, that was her idea! Smart gal!

I see BogHog is here. Thanks for your help at the other site before it desinigrated and I lost what you suggested.

I can't get it running good enough to idle on its own without keeping some throttle on it. I keep wondering if its PCM, Injectors, COPS, or ? I think the CATS are still good as I don't have any debris in the system. Guess they could be plugged up, but would have figured to find something!

There is a TSB about 2005 tributes,escapes and mariners where wrong oem plugs will take out the coils and possibly the PCM.I don't have it off the top of my head but can get if if you need.Start with these few things and get back to me with results.P/S intake gasket set is about $8.00.

Got a upper and lower kit along with injector O ring kit.

Thanks guys for your inputs. Will be working on it tomorrow morning bright and early! Will post the results. Hope this site fares better than the other one. Can't imagine how much time you guys put in there to have it all vanish like that. Invaluable wealth of information.

Time for dinner and a Margarita or 2. :biggrin5:

 

[aws1963]

Any chance this thing could have jumped timing? I see it has 2 chains. Geez, I hope not. What a major endeavor that repair is.

Heading back out to the garage here this afternoon.

 

[Cuda_jim]

I doubt it jumped time, you would be getting a backfire through the exhaust or intake IMO.

Did you pull the codes? What were they? Should have been (P0352, P0355, P0356), the plugs that you found blackened.

Have you switched the COP's to see if the miss-fire follows the coils?

The TSB boghog posted should be followed. It says to replace the plugs and coils if the wrong plugs were installed (date code missing on plug). The TSB seems to indicate that if the wrong plugs were installed they could have damaged the coils.
Keep us posted.

 

[aws1963]

I doubt it jumped time, you would be getting a backfire through the exhaust or intake IMO.

Did you pull the codes? What were they? Should have been (P0352, P0355, P0356), the plugs that you found blackened.

Have you switched the COP's to see if the miss-fire follows the coils?

The TSB boghog posted should be followed. It says to replace the plugs and coils if the wrong plugs were installed (date code missing on plug). The TSB seems to indicate that if the wrong plugs were installed they could have damaged the coils.
Keep us posted.

Codes were what you said. I moved #5 to #4 and it coded #4 also. I did not clear before so it makes sense that #5 was still coded. I'll retest them as you cleared up the process in the other thread. Although at this point, I think I will replace all 6 and see if that makes a difference. I hope I did not fry the PCB. It was driven for less than a 1/4 mile to get back home. That's probably what saved my CATS too!

Unfortunately, I changed the plugs and tossed them (couple of months ago) before I was aware of the TSB. I have no way of checking which plugs they were although I do remember they were Motorcraft.

Thanks for your help! Sure is great to get experienced people to offer suggestions. I do appreciate it alot! :thumbsup:

 

[aws1963]

Interesting!

Well, ran out quickly to test the 3 front secondary windings. #4 had nothing, #5 (which was the good #4 before I moved it) had 5.8, #6 had nothing (I think I switched them around). Will pull the back 3 tomorrow (dinner to go to tonight) and check them. At this point, I think I will just replace all 6, put in new plugs (motorcraft) and see what happens. If the PCM is dead, atleast I will have all new COP's and plugs.

If the PCM is dead, will I damage the new COP's if I try to fire it up?

 

[aws1963]

Update - Saturday Work Results

Well, that was a fun day! :mad2:

Headed out to Napa and picked up 3 COP units (all they had) to replace the bad ones and then have a back up. Pulled all COP's, cleaned the ones that tested good (surface) replaced springs and boots and then retested them. All good. Took the spark plugs out, cleaned them, checked the gaps, and reinstalled them. Reinstalled the COP's with dielectric on the boot to coil connection and on the bottom over the spark plugs for a good seal on both ends. As I was installing the #3 plug, it slipped out of the socket and fell behind the engine. :yikes: After 2 hours and losing half the skin on my right knuckles, I got it out. Unbelievable. It fell right between the transfer case and transmission in an area that is basically a pocket. The plug was wedged sideways and I could not dislodge it. 2 hours later, and more 4 letter words than I have said aloud in my 46 years on this earth, I got it with my extendable magnet.

Good news is now the 3.0 runs. Bad news is it still has a rough idle. No where near what it was before, but I notice the engine shaking a little more than I think it should.

Here's the problem now:

After the motor runs for about 1 or 2 minutes it gets a "chug chug cha chug chug cha chug" sound. Not on a regular frequency. Very irregular, but about once a second or so. Sounds like its coming from the intake manifold. Sure hope this is not a valve issue!

I did not road test it yet. Will do that tomorrow. Wondering if the computer needs running engine time to clear the errors from memory and reset. Any thoughts?

Thanks for your help guys!

 

[Boghog]

Did you reset the PCM or disconnect the battery.If so,you have to reset the system monitors.Also the KAM (keep alive memory )was flushed.so you have a learning curve for the PCM to relearn.

 

[aws1963]

Did you reset the PCM or disconnect the battery.If so,you have to reset the system monitors.Also the KAM (keep alive memory )was flushed.so you have a learning curve for the PCM to relearn.

I just disconnected the battery. How do I reset the system monitors? Do I need to drive it around for a while to get the PCM "re educated"?

I feel like I'm getting close! :thumbsup:

 

[Boghog]

If you had the battery disconnected for more than 20 min,then the PCM needs to relearn.Usuallytakes about 100 miles of driving.

 

[aws1963]

Ok. I'll give it a good run tomorrow. Any thoughts on the "chug" sound? Is it possible the PCM reset will cure this? Seems to run smooth at high rpm.

 

[Poppy]

You mentioned that you regapped your plugs.

I think either Cuda_Jim, or Canuck623 mentioned just the other day that one should NOT regap platinum plugs, that could cause issues with the plugs, they should be pre-gapped, and if wrong brought back to the store for a replacement.

Do you have platinum plugs in there?

 

[Cuda_jim]

The spark plug you dropped is suspect. If #3 misfire returns it may have damaged the plug.

 

[aws1963]

Update

Still messing around with this problem. Engine will idle, but seems a little rough! Once I start the engine and once it drops to idle speed, it does that "chuh chuh chuh" sound. Not on a consitent cadence, but regularly. If I touch the throttle and increase maybe 100 rpm, it goes away. If you crack the clips on the air cleaner housing it is a very "bassy" sound. I used a stethescope and it seems to be somewhere around the IAC. In listening to the IAC with the stethescope, I hear a distinct "clanking" sound inside it. As with the "chuh", its not a consitent cadence. I listened to my inlaws Chevy Trailblazer IAC, and it I did not hear the clanking. I could hear the "flutter", but that's it. Mine has a distinct metal on metal "clanking" sound. No error code though!

In driving, it seemed way under powered. Had to go almost 1/2 throttle to get it to move. Drove it around the block a couple of times. Maybe a mile.

I pulled 4,5, and 6 plugs, and they looked great. Clean without the previous carbon fouling, and did not smell like raw fuel.

Will pull 1,2 and 3 after dinner to see how they look. If they are good, then I can assume (ya, I know the saying) they are all firing again.

Will post later this evening on my findings!

Questions/Comments appreciated!

 

[Boghog]

I still think you may have Cat problems (front) Try this,it's cheap and easy.

To diagnose a plugged catalytic converter, you can check intake vacuum or exhaust backpressure. To check intake vacuum, connect a vacuum gauge to a vacuum port on the intake manifold. Start the engine and note the vacuum reading at idle. Then increase engine speed to about 2,500 rpm and hold steady. Normal vacuum at idle for most engines should be 18 to 22 inches Hg. When the engine speed is increased there should be a momentary drop in vacuum before it returns to within a couple of inches of the idle reading. If the vacuum reading is lower than normal and/or continues to drop as the engine runs, it probably indicates a buildup of backpressure in the exhaust. Remember, though, that intake vacuum can also be affected by retarded ignition timing and valve timing. What's more, some engines are much more sensitive to small changes in intake vacuum than others, so checking backpressure rather than intake vacuum may give you a better indication of what's going on.

 

[aws1963]

Results of Vacuum Test

Tapped into intake with vacuum test gauge.

Reading at idle - 17Hg
Slow increase to 3000 rpm
Reading at 3000 rpm - 17 maybe 18Hg and holding steady. It did drop a little on increasing the rpm, but in the end, held steady at 3000 rpm.

However, at idle once the engine is up to temperature, the needle will bounce up to 18Hg and down to 16Hg matching the "Chuh" sound I mentioned in earlier posts. An increase of about 100 rpm eliminates that "Chuh" situation. Wonder if I have a bad valve or messed up the idle setting somehow!

I'm going to make a short video and see if I can get it up on YouTube. Never done it before but seems like a good way to demonstrate what's happening.