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Discussion Starter #161
Engine Assembly Continued

This is the part I like. Putting it together and seeing the results.

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The head studs get screwed in hand tight and the deck and head surface were wiped with IPA one last time before the head gasket went on. Not less forgetting the locating inserts, were well, inserted.

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I followed Edelbrocks torque specs on the bolts instead of ARP. ARP instructs to use 110 ft/lbs on all bolts, but Edelbrock says 110 on the top row and 100 on the bottom row in 3 equal increments. Slowly looking more and more like an engine.

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Now for the more funner (funner isn't a word but it should be) part.

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The multiport manifold arrived.

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This is one serious chunk of aluminum. It weighs just about the same as the all cast iron LS5 intake on my 454.

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So here's what I've chosen for parts. It's obviously the Edelbrock intake and Edelbrock fuel rails and believe me I'll get back to those in a bit. The throttle body is a Holley generic multiport throttle body. The injectors are Holley made based on the lapped disc Bosch style injectors. These are 42 lb @ 43 PSI fuel pressure.

When I picked these out I used a BSFC of 0.5 and 500 peak horsepower, then rounded up to the nearest size injector. I chose Holley injectors because they supply the voltage compensation chart for fuel delivery. This is crucial when manually programming your own system. The rest of the system is more or less standard EFI parts. I'll need to mount a MAP sensor as there is no provision on the throttle body but that's already sorted out.

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Now back to railing on Edelbrock quality. On the right is a Blue Thunder intake and that was 750 dollars. The Edelbrock is 815 dollars. The Blue Thunder is fully machined nicely and ready for install. The Edelbrock intake is not. I don't have specific pictures yet, but I need to machine a flat spot around each intake mounting bolt so it can actually seal. Plus the intake ports are so small and off compared to the intake gaskets much porting and polishing will be needed to match the heads.

But it doesn't end there. So the Edelbrock fuel rails I ordered had shown a different style of rail. Now these in my opinion are much nicer looking, but Edelbrock put the hardware for the old style of which is completely useless and I'll have to machine standoffs out of round stock and order some stainless hardware.

Just typical Edelbrock shenanigans.

Until next time.

Cheers
 

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Why did you pick the engine color of silver?

You have the two manifolds. Have you made a decision?

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Discussion Starter #163
Why did you pick the engine color of silver?

You have the two manifolds. Have you made a decision?

Action
Hello Action,

My better half chose the engine colour, this '66 gal 500XL is her baby and she's picking out the colours, I'm just the minion doing the work. The two intakes were for a comparison on what to expect from the aftermarket as far as ready to install. The right hand side Blue Thunder is for a project way down the road.

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At least the manifold ports are smaller than the head ports, you sure don't want it the other way around. Did you check the cross section area of the intake runners to the port size? I've always been told that it is OK to leave the intake manifold unmatched to the heads, if smaller, and maybe preferable. I could see that if the runner cross section is enlarged at the gasket to match the head port it could slow the air some and maybe introduce turbulence that could be more harmful than beneficial.

On the heads, did you check the valve seal? I don't recall if you posted on that before, but I've seen people railing against the "ready to run OTB" claims of many head makers, primarily with leaky valve seats. Did you have to lap valves on your new heads?
 

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Discussion Starter #165
At least the manifold ports are smaller than the head ports, you sure don't want it the other way around. Did you check the cross section area of the intake runners to the port size? I've always been told that it is OK to leave the intake manifold unmatched to the heads, if smaller, and maybe preferable. I could see that if the runner cross section is enlarged at the gasket to match the head port it could slow the air some and maybe introduce turbulence that could be more harmful than beneficial.

On the heads, did you check the valve seal? I don't recall if you posted on that before, but I've seen people railing against the "ready to run OTB" claims of many head makers, primarily with leaky valve seats. Did you have to lap valves on your new heads?
Hello 70XL,

The intake port cross section area seems to be more or less close to the port size, but that size is much smaller than the head port size. I will have to open all that up and blend as best as I can in the intake. You really do not want any sharp transitions anywhere in the intake or exhaust for that matter but since the pressure differentials are much less in the intake stream it's more crucial there.

The reason why you do not want any sharp transitions is vortices created spoiling and slowing down any laminar air flow present in the runner. Think of an airplane wing tip. Right where the wing ends (wing tip) large vortices are created from the pressure differential and air flowing over the top and bottom of the wing. Those vortices spoil any laminar air flow outside the wing span. It doesn't affect the plane creating them, but can be a rough ride for a smaller plane immediately following it as crates large turbulent wakes.

A similar thing can happen on sharp transitions in the intake runner. The rolling swirls off the port mismatch will slow down the laminar flow trying to flow through.

On a stock full size car FE does this really matter.......... no not really and I wouldn't waste my time with something like this as most mid 60's and later FE's were pretty anemic from the factory, even the Q code 428 (non CJ) was nothing to write home about.

For the topic of the valve seating on Edelbrock heads, I had to lap these. The previous set I bought they needed a complete valve job they were so bad. Plus of the previous heads had a binding valve guide and it needed to be reamed.

I had to CC these heads to calculate the dome needed on the piston for the static compression ratio I wanted and for gigglesnorts I poured some of the coloured alcohol I use for the volume test on a couple of the cylinders and nearly every intake valve leaked it. Fortunately the guides were good in these heads and after lapping they held their drink.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #166
A Little More Engine Progress

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Time to assemble the valve train.

More engine jewelry. All these parts are Precision Oil Pumps. It's like an erector set of valve train parts. Those bags of shims are needed to space the rockers over the valves on the shaft. The stock FE just uses tension springs to keep the rockers positioned on the shaft because the valve springs on old OEM stock flat tappet cams were so weak they weren't worried about the rocker sliding over and the pushrod dislodging. Obviously with the high spring tension of the roller cam you want the rocker precisely positioned and secure from floating around on the shaft. The Rockers have replaceable bushings and are hone to fit, hence the little brake hone. The new rocker shafts are stronger than the old ones Ford used and I bought the supported ends because the stock Ford end rockers are unsupported. The shaft has been known to break off with stiffer valve springs. All these reasons are why the original valve train is in the rubbish bin and none of the old stuff is being using. :)

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Ford has bolts that hold down the rocker shaft but I use the studs, so you use Locktite and screw them in to keep them from spinning.

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This where you play the shim game and shim all the rockers without being too loose or worse binding till they are over each respective valve stem.

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It's the other Port - O - Magic head. :)

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I spent an entire day honing, cleaning all the new valve train parts and shimming as you have to put on and take off each rocker assembly about a dozen times.

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Now it's symmetrical looking.

Continued in next post.
 

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Discussion Starter #167
Engine Assembly Continued

46642


Test fitting the manifold to see what all awaits me on what I have to do to machine this intake.

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The head interface looks good. That makes me happy.

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I used the distributor to locate the intake because Edelbrock doesn't believe in machining for the locating pin that's mounted in the block, withcidentally has to be removed in order to use an Edelbrock intake. So you have to use the distributor as a big locating pin.

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This will have to be ground down. This is where the pad bracket bolts to the front of the engine to hold the York 210 compressor. The intake needs to be flat as the side of the head. Ironic the head and intake are made by the same company and they haven't yet figured that one out.

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Oh my, it looks like Ray Charles cast this intake.

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I wish I could say the other side is better......... But I can't...... :(

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More shenanigans. The bolt hole to mount the intake isn't flat, how on earth are you supposed to seal the hole from the engine oil directly underneath?????????? I'll have to figure out a way to machine the bolt lands flat.

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This is how it would look. This is a pretty poor show.

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I have my work cut out for me, literally.

Until next time.

Cheers
 

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Engine Assembly Continued

This will have to be ground down. This is where the pad bracket bolts to the front of the engine to hold the York 210 compressor. The intake needs to be flat as the side of the head. Ironic the head and intake are made by the same company and they haven't yet figured that one out.

Oh my, it looks like Ray Charles cast this intake.

More shenanigans. The bolt hole to mount the intake isn't flat, how on earth are you supposed to seal the hole from the engine oil directly underneath?????????? I'll have to figure out a way to machine the bolt lands flat.

I have my work cut out for me, literally.

Until next time.

Cheers
This is funny and disappointing all at the same time. I get the pieces were reverse engineered. But you would think there was some test fitting and testing in actual use. The FE cast iron intake is like the weight of a small four cylinder. This new installation has to save a lot of weight. And one of those pictures looks like the gasket may cover part of the runner hole.

And the test fit of the manifold shows the water pump coolant nipple to intake nipple is a bit off. Hopefully with a gasket the alignment will be better. I understand the rubber hose is flexible. Sheesh. Those were not beta test parts

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Discussion Starter #172
did you add oil restrictors to the heads?
Hello redrag,

The oil pressurize feeds to the heads are blocked off as I'm using push rod oiling since the lifters are capable and custom length pushrods are needed anyway.

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Discussion Starter #173
This is funny and disappointing all at the same time. I get the pieces were reverse engineered. But you would think there was some test fitting and testing in actual use. The FE cast iron intake is like the weight of a small four cylinder. This new installation has to save a lot of weight. And one of those pictures looks like the gasket may cover part of the runner hole.

And the test fit of the manifold shows the water pump coolant nipple to intake nipple is a bit off. Hopefully with a gasket the alignment will be better. I understand the rubber hose is flexible. Sheesh. Those were not beta test parts

Action
Hi Action,

Yuppers, ONE (Edelbrock we are talking about YOU) would think that for an engine that debuted in 1958 they would have the parts dialed in by now. <laughing manically>

I noticed the bypass nipples too, I'm using silicon heater hose so it's quite flexible and hoping it does the job. That intake, injectors, rails (that don't have the right hardware thank you again Edelbrock) and throttle body were 1800 dollars, the Holley components are superior compared to the Edelbrock.

Lately I am convinced that Edelbrock is the Walmart of aftermarket performance.

<sigh>

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #174
Intake Manifold and Some Floor Pan Work

Hello all,

Just a little update on the gal 500 XL. I finished the machining of the intake, what a task that was. I have 10 bloody contiguous hours in this and am I over this intake :)

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I managed to do the recess for the manifold to head bolts.

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Now that's how it should have come from Edelbrock. They all sit flat now.

This was a pain in the butt to do. So Edelbrock crudely and I do mean crudely drilled the manifold to head bolt holes. It's a 3/8" bolt but Edelbrock made the holes slightly larger than 7/16" and they are all not the same diameter. The holes were already that large and I did not want to go larger. So first I had to find the largest hole then take a 1/2" round steel rod and turn it down on the lathe till it fit the largest through hole on the manifold. Now I had to make the other ones all this one size. So I took that turned down 6" or so round rod and put a radius on the nose and cut slots like flutes on the sides at a severe angle and made a crude reamer. It's cutting aluminum and didn't need to be out of tool steel or anything. So I reamed the other smaller holes to the size of the largest hole already existing.

OK, now the holes are all the same size.

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Next I cut another slug out of the turned down 1/2" rod and centre drilled it for this little Dremel bit. Now I have a guide bushing to centre the cutting stone in each bolt hole.

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I took the cutting stone on the right and ground it down to a diameter slightly larger than the washer I intend to use. The washer is a 3/8" AN washer.

The Dremel was too weak to do this so I used a battery powered drill to spin and pull the cutting stone into the top of the manifold from the bottom side.

That was tricky but it's done.

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Now for the truly grueling part, porting this. My gosh did they miss the mark on casting this. I was asked initially if the rest of the runner was the same area as the port size. At first I thought it was, but it turns out it's not. The port mouth and about 1/2-1" inwards funnels down. Now this is counter productive because air flow will speed up through this hit the sudden edge, create vortices which will slow down the laminar flow, then it would dump into the head port which is larger and further slow down flow.

As sold as, it's awful, I don't think you could make anything worse. Ug....

Turns out I was able to open the mouth of the intake port and cut back 1/2" or so and the rest of the runner is size of the new port, withcidentally is the standard medium riser port size. I don't know what Edelbrock was thinking.

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I had to remove tremendous amounts of aluminum from this thing to achieve the medium riser port size.

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Now were talking..... oh yes..... :)

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This is a fraction of the aluminum I took off. I mere fraction. I was in a Tyvek suit, gloves, eye protection, mask and a hat and I'm still removing splinters from myself.

Continued in next post.
 

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Discussion Starter #175
Intake Manifold and Some Floor Pan Work continued

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This what I used to port the intake and heads. The carbide bit on the left is worth every penny of 80 dollars. I've had this for years and it's still sharp as a razor. To keep the aluminum from binding to the carbide bit occasionally I coated the bit with light oil and did the shavings just fly off. Once opened up I used the cheap and chips sanding discs to smooth it out. I went through 3 and 1/2 boxes of the sanding cones doing the heads and intake.

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What a difference.

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I machined off a bit in the front to clear the air con compressor (York 210) bracket.

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other side

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The shavings in the jar is 2/3's of just one side. It made a royal mess everywhere. But it's done. Now I did test the pushrods through the intake and adjusted them and turned the engine over to make sure the holes were big enough and no rod was going to hit. I'm happy to report Edelbrock was able to get that right as the holes were large enough.

I can only imagine what a machine shop would charge for this. Edelbrock was on track for making a decent intake then screwed the pooch by only going 90% then calling it done.

I appreciate that Edelbrock even attempted to create something for the ancient FE and I do appreciate the amount of engineering and manufacturing that went into this. The man hours and R&D costs are quite high, but in reality this should be a 400 or so dollar intake and not 815. They could have easily finished it like I did on a CNC mill and even made a much better cutter and guide for the spot facing with an actual carbide bit.

I don't want to go off too far on a tangent but I had to make a plastic part for my ancient strobe wheel balancer and it took loads of time to do.

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The original broken and melted front face is obviously on the right and my prototype is on the left.

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I can't find anything for this wheel balancer anymore. I think they are just about extinct so I have to make my own. This is where I can appreciate the amount of time and money that Edelbrock spent on the intake. I just just had to make one plastic part from scratch and it took me about 30 man hours.

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That includes the initial measuring best I could based off the old part, modeling it, printing the first one, seeing where it was still off, correct the 3D model, reprint, sand, paint and install.

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Sure it's a 3D printed ABS part and it will never be as nice as the injection molded part, but it's a darn sight better than the old part.

continued in next post
 

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Discussion Starter #176
Intake Manifold and Some Floor Pan Work continued

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Test fitting the lens and strobe housing.

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fits like a glove

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All that work just to make the strobe a little bit nicer. Plus I went through the electronics and found some high ESR caps that were also electrically leaky. This should work for another 50 years.

But I digress, I just wish Edelbrock would pay more attention to their products.

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These are the pushrods for the 390, now 396.

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And of course I find several pushrods with this. So I had to use a very fine file and remove the high spots and smooth the ends.

Why is nothing ever easy.

That's as far as I am on the engine. Now for some body things.

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Geeze many years I started on this car by replacing part of the rear floor pan as it was rotted from rodent excrement. So there's a rear floor brace that goes over this and it has just enough large holes for mice to make a home in. I remember flushing this out originally before I realized it was rusted out from within and the sheer of mouse turds was just disgusting. It just never seemed to stop. I had no recourse but to remove the brace, if anything to clean out the crap, literally. If you didn't, you'd always have that smell that seems to emanate from somewhere and you don't know where.

Anyway I was a newbee at metal work back then and I left this and it's not that good, but I finished the welding and made sure all the metal was filled in with weld and ground flat for the floor brace. It's not the greatest, but it's strong and it's a floor pan going to be painted and covered with sound/thermal deadener and then carpet. As long as corrosion control is in place and there are no holes this will work.

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working on this side.

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The red paint is actually weld through primer and since I previously scraped most of the old seam sealer (it's asbestos mixed with rubber) I wanted to POR 15 the exposed seams first, then once that dries I can apply urethane seam sealer before the brace is welded back in.

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This is the brace from the donor gal 500 XL. The rear brace is the same for the gal 500 and gal 500 XL but this one didn't have rust holes through it. It's ready for install after the seam sealer is applied.

Once the rear brace is welded back in, I can remove the front braces to replace them with the XL's braces since they are different for the bucket seats vs the bench seat.

Until next time.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #179
Hello All,

Just a little more progress.

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I bought some Urethane seam sealer and applied it to the pan to rocker joints that the rear seat bracket would obscure once welded.

Now to properly locate it and weld the brace in. I wanted to measure many times before welding it. So I referenced our spare '66 rolling body.

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Since it's a 2 door hardtop it uses the same rear brace and I measured 15 - 3/8" from the wheel house to the back of the brace.

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Interestingly I checked the 4 door hardtop and it measured the same but the brace isn't as deep as the 2 door.

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This had me wondering why are the rear seat floor braces different. The seat clips are in the same place and there's no structural reason for the deeper one. This one has me scratching my head as to why. Technically you have a wee bit more foot room in a 4 door but it's the exact same floor pan as used in the 2 door hardtop, 4 door hardtop and 4 door post model.

Just dunno.

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Anyway, it's located properly and welded in. At least it doesn't smell like rodent excrement anymore. Now it just smells like paint and burnt paint :)

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To squeeze the pan to the brace to plug weld I used the floor jack and a piece of wood to push up on the pan to meet the brace. The body jig allowed me to move around the jack easily.

Continued in next post
 

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Discussion Starter #180
Continued

I painted the intake and also the new coolant neck as the old one and most of the original coolant fittings were so pitted it wasn't feasible to try to reuse them.

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I detailed all the hardware for the intake. I had to cut down the 8 smaller intake bolts after checking thread depth in the head.

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I have to use the 1968 rocker covers as they are deeper. Not sure if they came out in '67. But the '68 have "Power by Ford" and are taller and clear the aftermarket adjustable rockers.

I still have to make standoffs for the fuel rails, so I ordered some stainless socket head bolts and washers and some 1/2" round stock of 6061 T6 aluminum to cut and lathe out the profile for the standoffs.

Plus I still need to go through the distributor as there is much modification it needs.

Until next time.

Cheers
 
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