[Fordfreak89]

Ok so I finally decided to trade my '06 f150 in for a '16 f150 about three months ago. Imagine my disappointment when I drive the new truck for a few weeks and it's stalls on me the first time. Ok maybe it's the gas I think, use different gas, different station and it runs fine for a weeks and bam it's happens again. Now it's happening on almost a daily basis. After doing some research and after it stalled on me when I was on a mountain road with my kids, which included a sheer cliff and certain death on one side and a rock face on the other, I've had it. Ford should be sued for this very dangerous issue that could potentially lead to death. All the research I've done has pointed to a deep rabbit hole of fixes that donfix anything.

has anyone considered suing Ford? Cause they should and I'll be the first to lead the charge!

I bought another ford truck because it was reliable and a workhorse that never let me down. But I'm p!ssed right now and ready to swear off ford forever

 

[Action]

Welcome to the FFO!

Are you interested in pursuing a fix. Or do you just want to sue?
Not sure you will get far with legal action on a used vehicle that is 6 to 7 years old.

Action

 

[Fordfreak89]

Welcome to the FFO!

Are you interested in pursuing a fix. Or do you just want to sue?
Not sure you will get far with legal action on a used vehicle that is 6 to 7 years old.

Action

I am interested in a fix but there appears to be none! Just a lot of money thrown at the problem without it actually being resolved. I've spoken with a local dealership as we have a 3 year warranty and they say they'd like to flush fuel system, change oil, and check spark plugs. This feels like a shot in the dark and I'm not interested in having my truck in the shop every other week and spending a countless amount of money on it either

 

[Action]

Diagnosis before repair is a better solution in my opinion.
I have general questions then to split the problem possibility into either fuel or ignition.

How many miles on the truck?
Which engine is in the truck?
Is the stall occurring ...
Hot engine or cold?
Accelerating or decelerating like coming to a stop. (or steady speed)
If at a steady speed roughly what speed range or window
Is the stalling repeatable?
Any warning lights on? Check engine)
Have DT codes been checked since the last stall?

Action

 

[Action]

Generally where is the truck operated. City state is fine.
This is an ambient temp and humidity question.

Action

 

[Fordfreak89]

Truck has 87,000 miles on it and we live in Colorad springs, Co
Truck has the 5.0L v8 flex fuel engine
No check engine lights or DTCs! I have the FORScan and have checked it on multiple occasions and never throws any codes.
it happens at anytime! One trip it started right after we got started and happened tried to stall at every stop for the two hour drive to the camp site. The only way I kept it from dying was to keep it revved or moving at every stop light. It shudders and tries to stall either when sitting at a stop or when driving under 15 MPH!
its also random so it could happen everyday for a week or happen once in a month period and can be when the engine is hot or cold.

I've tried different fuels and am about to try the change the oil every 3,000 miles instead of the recommended intervals.
it's down to about 50% oil life left and a happening nearly every trip now

 

[Action]

Thanks for the data that helps.
I am going to call this a low engine RPM stal or a deceleration stall.
It won;t stall if your fott is on the accelerator, correct?
And different gasoline grades will not have much to do with this either.

Can not see how changing the oil will make a difference. The quick and easy test for issues about the oil is to smell. Pull the dip stick and sniff the oil at the end. Smell like gasoline? If no and you are not due for an oil change I don;t see the point.

I am assuming when the rpms are falling and you pedal the gas, the engine is smooth(er) running when you step on the accelerator?

If yes does sound like more of a fuel issue.
If the vehicle has a replaceable fuel filter, has it been replaced? Or would you replace it?

Older vehicles have had some issues with the fuel driver module. The fuel system in your vehicle varies fuel pressure with fuel pump speed. The fuel pump driver controls the fuel pump based on various imput. When the truck needs more fuel (like accelerating) the fuel pump driver signals the fuel pump to crank up the pressure. The opposite is true when fuel is not needed.

I am wondering if an input is a cause the pump to go too low in pressure. Since you have FORScan I wonder if that is something that can be monitored. (I do not have that and I know about it. Only in the aspect of pulling codes. I use an older code reader) The assuption that the pump is good, otherwise you would have issues accelerating.

The other recommendation above about flushing the fuel system may have some validity. Especially if the fuel filter is permanent.

Spark plugs not so much. However if the plugs are original, at 87,000 I would be inclined to change out as a maintenance item. May not fix the problem, but at 87,000 miles. And maybe you can replace them. It would be worth getting pictures of the old plugs.

I have something else I want to explore.

Action

 

[DesertXL]

Welcome to the FFO!

Are you interested in pursuing a fix. Or do you just want to sue?
Not sure you will get far with legal action on a used vehicle that is 6 to 7 years old.

Action

+1,

When you buy a used car from a dealer you have no idea of its past and are taking an enormous gamble. Plus in order to bring about any realistic legal action you would have to prove it was a "Ford" problem and not a "previous owner" problem and that will be next to impossible to do, especially on a +5 year old used vehicle. It could be rodent damage on the wiring harness causing intermittent problems from being parked at the previous owners lot and the previous owner got tired of the now problem and traded it in. The point is you just do not know.

If there are no soft or hard trouble codes stored in the ECU you would then need a scanner that can read all the data in real time as you drive and have a logging function to observe up to the point of stalling to solve this problem. Sure you could guess and throw parts at it but seldom does that work without spending countless hours and thousands of dollars at it.

At least with real time data up to and including the point of stalling will pinpoint whether it's a fuel problem or sensor problem. For example a flaky MAF sensor could cause it and with real time data logging you'll know for sure.

Just thoughts.

Cheers

 

[Action]

The lack of codes (assuming the system is working correctly) has me puzzled.

Codes will be generated if the return signal from any sensor to the PCM is outside of a range the PCM wants to see.

However, there are exceptions like the O2 sensor. The PCM doesn't really recognize an out-of-range signal from the O2 sensor. Or if it does the range is extremely wide.
The PCM is just looking for a signal (any signal) from the O2 sensor and NOT in the first so many minutes of the engine starting. In those first few minutes the PCM is max rich fuel mixture to the injectors. A cold engine start program. Even when the engine is nearly warmed up the PCM will go through a very short warm up cycle. During that time the O2 has to warm up too. It has a heater circuit. After the warm up cycle (and if you were in park the RPM would come down) the PCM is now looking for a signal from the O2 sensor. If it gets a signal of any type - no code. Now the signal could be slow or off and the PCM will not generate a code. Based on that signal the PCM is making air/fuel trim adjustments to the fuel injectors. If that is not right you could have issues

With FORscan can you observe the operation of the O2 sensors?
Or for that matter other sensors too?

Action

 

[DesertXL]

The lack of codes (assuming the system is working correctly) has me puzzled.

Codes will be generated if the return signal from any sensor to the PCM is outside of a range the PCM wants to see.

However, there are exceptions like the O2 sensor. The PCM doesn't really recognize an out-of-range signal from the O2 sensor. Or if it does the range is extremely wide.
The PCM is just looking for a signal (any signal) from the O2 sensor and NOT in the first so many minutes of the engine starting. In those first few minutes the PCM is max rich fuel mixture to the injectors. A cold engine start program. Even when the engine is nearly warmed up the PCM will go through a very short warm up cycle. During that time the O2 has to warm up too. It has a heater circuit. After the warm up cycle (and if you were in park the RPM would come down) the PCM is now looking for a signal from the O2 sensor. If it gets a signal of any type - no code. Now the signal could be slow or off and the PCM will not generate a code. Based on that signal the PCM is making air/fuel trim adjustments to the fuel injectors. If that is not right you could have issues

With FORscan can you observe the operation of the O2 sensors?
Or for that matter other sensors too?

Action

Howdy Action,

I long while back I bought what I thought was a very nice used '97 Grand Marquis GS. It would drive normally then act like 4-5 cylinders just would stop firing and the engine would buck like mad and the car wouldn't go over 45 floored. The check engine lamp would flash when this is happening. Obviously it's warning of catalyst damage, however it never set one bloody hard or soft code in the ECU and it was a near daily event. This was before full real time data scan tools were affordable to the average Joe and I was working long hours to pay off my house rigorously so I didn't have time for this nonsense. I ended up picking the right evening (when it was running normally) and unloaded it at Car Max for what I paid for it luckily. That's why you never buy a car there or even at a dealership as many people unload problem child vehicles there and believe you me I'm not the only one.

Whilst the automotive engineers try to anticipate every failure mode possible, ECU's aren't perfect and the diagnostics are not to be heavily relied upon. They are just there to guide you and most of the time their error codes lead you in the right direction. However things like a faulty solder joint in a MAF sensor can swing the frequency lower or higher (change of measured air flow) all the while still being in the allowable window to not trip an error but yet stall the engine. I'm not saying this is the cause, just one of many possibilities that fly under the ECU diagnostic radar as it were.

Now with affordable real time data scanners you can suss out the problems much easier and cheaper yourself without relying on incompetent shops/dealers, firing the parts cannon at it relentlessly or passing the problem child vehicle down the line however you have to know what you are doing and what you are looking at.

Cheers

 

[Action]

I have an older (5 to 8 years) scanner I use to pull codes. I know it has some features that I do not use. Frankly have not had any driveability issues that I could not fix without just pulling codes. My thoughts have always been why bother looking at how those engines are operating. My better half and daughter don;t know and don't care about how their cars run or even fuel economy. My DD is dialed in pretty darn good.

However as technology moves forward, getting a scanner or software that splits out the sensors and displays in real time is likely what I am going to want. I have heard of FORscan for over a year. That maybe my next tool purchase. But would not buy just to pull codes and I know a guy on a different forum did that. The other features he does not use. And I am like what is the point in that?

I was on the FORscan website earlier this morning before I went to work, poking around. I will do some more to find out if this is the "real time" scanner for me.

As to buying used cars. I think I am the luckiest person in that arena.
Bought my daughters car from a local used car lot. Was 7 years old and had 94,000 miles. Great car for what it is, mid-sized four door sedan. (Fusion)
Bought my DD from a used car lot in Florida. Flew in and drove to Phoenix. Was 9 years old with 110,000 miles. Better than I could have ever hoped for. (Navigator)
Bought the 66 Mercury and 66 Lincoln on the internet years ago. Both were as described, which was not in perfect condition. But at least the issues were well stated by the seller.
I have bought a fair number of used vehicles and nearly all of them have been good buys.

Action

 

[DesertXL]

I have an older (5 to 8 years) scanner I use to pull codes. I know it has some features that I do not use. Frankly have not had any driveability issues that I could not fix without just pulling codes. My thoughts have always been why bother looking at how those engines are operating. My better half and daughter don;t know and don't care about how their cars run or even fuel economy. My DD is dialed in pretty darn good.

However as technology moves forward, getting a scanner or software that splits out the sensors and displays in real time is likely what I am going to want. I have heard of FORscan for over a year. That maybe my next tool purchase. But would not buy just to pull codes and I know a guy on a different forum did that. The other features he does not use. And I am like what is the point in that?

I was on the FORscan website earlier this morning before I went to work, poking around. I will do some more to find out if this is the "real time" scanner for me.

As to buying used cars. I think I am the luckiest person in that arena.
Bought my daughters car from a local used car lot. Was 7 years old and had 94,000 miles. Great car for what it is, mid-sized four door sedan. (Fusion)
Bought my DD from a used car lot in Florida. Flew in and drove to Phoenix. Was 9 years old with 110,000 miles. Better than I could have ever hoped for. (Navigator)
Bought the 66 Mercury and 66 Lincoln on the internet years ago. Both were as described, which was not in perfect condition. But at least the issues were well stated by the seller.
I have bought a fair number of used vehicles and nearly all of them have been good buys.

Action

Howdy Action,

Yuppers you have been lucky with buying used cars. The only car I had that ever was over the top in problems that caused me to unload it was that '97 Mercury. It was just someone elses problem child. There were other problems too I noted and it just wasn't the fact of an intermittent ECU control problem. The other main problems were the car was just poorly made by Ford unlike the earlier 90's Panthers. I wasn't alone in that assessment either. That's when I unloaded it and eventually bought a '93 Mercury Grand Marquis that was light years apart in quality.... for the better.

On the topic of needing to know how everything works in an automobile or anything else for that matter, well to each their own. It's not a problem so long as you have disposable cash on hand to pay specialists to fix your problems and do not mind doing so. Doesn't matter if it's an appliance, vehicle, house or doctor. The vast majority of the population seems to be this way. It's just when people come to forums asking for help and saying certain shops can't seem to fix it you only have a few options. Those are to dump the vehicle and most likely take a loss and be done with it, keep trying hoping someone can fix it and let the cash and your time flow or buck up and say I'll try to learn to fix it properly myself and in the case of not having any self generated codes in a vehicle with problems that means taking a deep technical dive into theory and tools, in this case a logging scanner that can read sensor data in real time.

I dunno maybe it is just where I live but incompetence seems to reign in all the fields I mentioned above and therefore I have taken it upon my own shoulders to sort out my own problems and rely as little as I can on others. Not only is it extremely rewarding to sort out most or all your own problems but so much cheaper too

Cheers