Ford Automobiles banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey all -- noob here, hope this frustrating problem is simple and just a function of my newness to Fords:

Car is a '99 2.0L SPI with an automatic. Ran fine, in fact got about 28 mpg in mixed driving here.

Had an accessory belt failure today -- merging onto the highway... loud rattle, then engine abruptly cut out, only the SERVICE ENGINE SOON light on the dash. Pulled over and shifted into park, popped the hood, found my accessory belt had only four ribs remaining (looked and felt fine only days before).

No problem -- paranoid, always carry tools in the trunk. :p Got a replacement belt and installed it in about ten minutes, I figured job done. However, car cranks but doesn't catch. Got a jump, figuring it was the battery. Nope, same crank/no-catch.

So, here's what I've read online with a few minutes googling: a timing belt tooth skip (the car does have 99.1K miles). I've jumped the battery properly, checked for a bad idler pulley bearing (all good), improper belt install (routing and alignment on pulleys is fine).

What should I check for first? It's my second Ford... but the first was a '78 351 E-150 Chateau back in the '90s. :p Help! Need this car to last me another year until I can update with something more... modern. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,352 Posts
I don't know if the accessory belt would cause you to suddenly jump a tooth on your timing belt, but you have two members suggesting that.

You can do a compression check to see if that might be the case.

Frankly, I'd pull diagnostic trouble codes to see if they pointed me somewhere.

I'd think that a shredded belt whipping around under the hood may have ripped off a sensor connector. I don't know your engine, but, for example, if it pulled the connector to your crankshaft position sensor, or the wire to it, you would not get a start, no matter how many batteries you used to jump it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dominick

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks, Poppy -- actually, you and another forum's members came up with the same conclusion, CPS. Dunno how active you are on FEOA, but I'm the same guy with a similar thread there. :p

That solution makes the most sense given the symptoms and the damage that preceded the symptoms, so will take a peek under the car tomorrow morning. Is the CPS on SPIs pretty easy to swap? Gawd I hope so... would love to have some form of transportation back other than my feet. :p

Dominick -- thanks, I know probably 80% of the time on SPIs, the timing belt and/or tensioner is to blame... I even thought it might be the CCRM. But this just goes to show you have to be thorough... and have lots of knowledgeable friends. Thanks, guys, will update. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,352 Posts
Thanks, Poppy -- actually, you and another forum's members came up with the same conclusion, CPS. Dunno how active you are on FEOA, but I'm the same guy with a similar thread there. :p
Never heard of FEOA. Sooooooo... when you have a problem, you like to spread it around, eh? :cool:

I hope the problem is easy to find, and easier to fix.
Good luck! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Yeah, helps to get as many experienced heads into a problem as possible, esp when it's priority one to have a functioning car to get my work done. Sorry if that approach offends anyone here, but the situation demanded it. :)

BTW... it isn't the CPS, unfortunately. Peered under the hood and looked at the sensor, its mounting, the female connector, and wiring -- all seem OK. However, I did check fuel pressure at the rail: it should be 60 psi or so when primed? I got a little trickle. Turned key to ON, checked again, same trickle. So it's a fuel issue.

Should I go with the CCRM, or check the pump itself?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,352 Posts
Had an accessory belt failure today -- merging onto the highway... loud rattle, then engine abruptly cut out,
Should I go with the CCRM, or check the pump itself?
The CCRM and its associated wiring is under the hood, and the fuel pump is in the tank. Which one is more likely to be damaged by a hunk of rubber and wire flailing around under the hood?

Could the rattle have triggered the inertia safety impact fuel cut off switch? You might want to check to make sure that it is depressed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dominick

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Yep, the fuel-cutoff switch was one possibility brought up elsewhere... its plunger was depressed. I didn't see any harness damage while under the car; so it most likely wasn't anything to do with that safety circuit... I was hoping for a simple answer too. :(

Though belt failure is pretty violent, I have to say, mine was actually pretty graceful. Only two ribs actually broke, the rest were still driving the accessories, until the shutdown, and as before, the highly-vulnerable CPS was untouched. Timing marks look spot on too, so not the timing belt... that's why I went with the fuel pump diag, as it's a common (though highly coincidental here) fail point apparently, as is the CCRM.

Not being a smartass or anything Poppy... just trying to figure a weird problem with as many experts' help as quickly as possible. Trust me, I'm a former 15 yr+ motorcycle tech, so on forums get a lot of noobs too. :p But, bike techs aren't gonna know squat about details or troubleshooting on an unfamiliar domestic car, which is where you guys come in. Thanks for your help. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,352 Posts
98EscortCCRM.JPG


This is for a 1998 escort, but it is most likely the same.
Of course, you checked your fuses, right?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dominick

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Aw, right on Poppy! Just what I needed, mucho thanks! :)

Yes -- the 30A fuel injection and 30A fuel pump fuses were fine, and none under the dash were blown, either. Right now, it seems like the most likely culprits are: bad fuel pump, bad CCRM. Gawd don't let it be a CCRM... :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,352 Posts
You're welcome ziptech800.
IIRC Dominic once found a picture of a CCRM that was opened up and labeled suggesting that it MIGHT be repaired. I forget the issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dominick

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,223 Posts
You're welcome ziptech800.
IIRC Dominic once found a picture of a CCRM that was opened up and labeled suggesting that it MIGHT be repaired. I forget the issue.
Poppy that was on a Taurus but it may be the same set up
I can't find that photo anymore
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Thanks Poppy & Dominick -- I've also seen somewhere where the CCRM was disassembled... didn't seem that difficult; just have to know which relay does what, and that anti-moisture coating on the board is a little fiddly. However, I think that thread was for an A/C problem, and the relay is quite different for the rest of the circuits on that board vs. the smaller A/C one, so I'd still need specs in order to source a swap automotive relay online. But for now, the schematic is plenty of help. ;)

Since I thought initially this was a 'check this, noob' sort of thing, haven't bought a service manual for the car. Time to get one, I think...

While into the wiring... think I'll solder and heat-shrink in some bypass terminals on the CCRM connector (such as for the fuel pump signal wire) to:

1) allow bypass so I'm not stranded or baking in case a solder joint or relay takes a dump in the middle of nowhere... and

2) much easier diag through these connector bodies when I need to troubleshoot (on motorcycles, you could mike the pin from the back of the connector in the past, but now bikes are adopting a lot of weather-proof stuff like cars).

Back with more after I get a Haynes/Chilton and dig in...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Okay @Poppy and @Dominick : my 3rd-gen SPI is running again, better than ever. But you're gonna want to hear what actually happened to the car... :eek:

So when the accessory belt fragged, I'd noticed not all of the belt was accounted for -- there was one rib I couldn't find that sweltery August afternoon on the highway. Just assumed it either broke up or got blown off the road by a car or something... but it was the root of the problem, check this out...

I'd been miking like a madman, having gotten factory service manuals with wiring diagrams for $27 off ebay last week (score?). Nothing, not a thing wrong. All electrical tested fine... so, since the water pump and timing belt were on their way out in less than 1000 miles anyway, did the due diligence to rip out the old and get a new pump + belt in there. I'd just zapped off the crank pulley bolt, and decided to rotate it to TDC #1 so the tensioner could come out...

The belt stayed put, and there was no rotation at the cam at all, it just stayed at TDC #1, straight up and only a pointer's width off the mark! Tensioner was fried, removed that and the belt, which was a tiny bit frayed at the edges, but otherwise in remarkably good condition. What the hell? And then, I slid the crank pulley off...

Hidden by the lip on the outside of pulley, was a belt rib so tightly and perfectly wrapped around the pulley contact surface, I had to cut it off. It had somehow made it under the timing belt and filled in the pulley grooves, lifting the teeth out (didn't help that the old tensioner was cooked). So when the engine tried to start, there was no timed intake or exhaust at all! Luckily the ECU knew to cut spark and disarm fuel delivery, if the cam and crank position sensors didn't jive.

Got the new water pump in (those hose clamps on either side are a beeyotch to get on and off), new timing belt and tensioner, accessory belt and its new tensioner, coolant in and all together... and it started first crank. :rolleyes:

One for the weird box... definitely not a common problem. But thanks for your help, I really appreciate it. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,352 Posts
I'm glad that you nailed it! That's not something that would have been easily diagnosed by way of the internet.

Thanks for staying in touch. :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: ziptech800
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top