Ford Automobiles banner

21 - 40 of 60 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
On the generator - the brushes may be shot. If you have a shop around that can replace them, it's pretty cost effective. You probably can buy a rebuilt generator also. Replacing the brushes isn't as easy as putting in new ones. It's best to turn the commutator on a lathe to smooth it out. I believe that Autokrafters sells a bracket assembly to convert from a generator to an alternator. Most people recommend a one-wire alternator so you don't have to deal with an external voltage regulator. I've read that a one-wire alternator will not start to operate until it spins up to 2000 RPM. If that's true, if you start the engine hot on slow idle, it might not start to indicate charging until you rev the engine. Personally, I'd keep the generator. My 1962 wagon has 143,000 miles on it and I've only had the brushes replaced twice.

On the horn - like Action said, the horn relay is activated by grounding one of the wires on the horn relay. You can check the relay easily by pressing the horn ring while the engine is not running. You should hear an audible "click". If you don't either the relay is shot or there is a break in the wiring to the steering wheel. To test, connect a voltmeter to the side that is supposed to be grounded by the horn ring. It should read 12V. When you press the horn ring, the voltage should go from 12V to zero. If it doesn't then the wiring is defective somewhere. If the voltage does go to zero and the relay doesn't click, the wiring is good and the relay is probably bad. If the relay DOES click then either it is defective and not sending power to the horns, or there is a problem with the wiring going to the horns. Put a voltmeter on the horn closest to the relay in the wiring diagram. If it doesn't go to 12V then the wiring is defective. If it does go to 12V then the horns are defective. As far as defective horns go, I just had to replace both horns on my 1962 wagon. Apparently, one of them had been bad for a while, but since the horn still blew, I thought everything was okay. Then one day, no horn at all. I picked up a new pair of horns at NAPA and installed them and MAN, WHAT A DIFFERENCE...!!!

On the gas gauge - does the temperature gauge work? There is a voltage regulator module that supplies voltage to the gauges. It is basically a bi-metal spring that controls a set of contacts that switch the 12V and provides temperature compensation, since the gauges are thermal gauges. If it's defective, then the gauges won't work. Also, on the gas gauge, when you installed the tank, is the tank grounded to the body? The sending unit gets it's ground return through the tank and the body of the car. If you painted or coated the mounting surfaces for the tank or if you painted or undercoated the tank, it may not be making a connection. Check it by using an ohm meter to verify that the tank is really grounded. If not, you can solve the problem by getting a large star washer, dropping the tank slightly, scraping some of the paint off of the tank and mounting surface, inserting the star washer, and tightening the tank back up again.

Good luck with your fixes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
On the generator - the brushes may be shot. If you have a shop around that can replace them, it's pretty cost effective. You probably can buy a rebuilt generator also. Replacing the brushes isn't as easy as putting in new ones. It's best to turn the commutator on a lathe to smooth it out. I believe that Autokrafters sells a bracket assembly to convert from a generator to an alternator. Most people recommend a one-wire alternator so you don't have to deal with an external voltage regulator. I've read that a one-wire alternator will not start to operate until it spins up to 2000 RPM. If that's true, if you start the engine hot on slow idle, it might not start to indicate charging until you rev the engine. Personally, I'd keep the generator. My 1962 wagon has 143,000 miles on it and I've only had the brushes replaced twice.

On the horn - like Action said, the horn relay is activated by grounding one of the wires on the horn relay. You can check the relay easily by pressing the horn ring while the engine is not running. You should hear an audible "click". If you don't either the relay is shot or there is a break in the wiring to the steering wheel. To test, connect a voltmeter to the side that is supposed to be grounded by the horn ring. It should read 12V. When you press the horn ring, the voltage should go from 12V to zero. If it doesn't then the wiring is defective somewhere. If the voltage does go to zero and the relay doesn't click, the wiring is good and the relay is probably bad. If the relay DOES click then either it is defective and not sending power to the horns, or there is a problem with the wiring going to the horns. Put a voltmeter on the horn closest to the relay in the wiring diagram. If it doesn't go to 12V then the wiring is defective. If it does go to 12V then the horns are defective. As far as defective horns go, I just had to replace both horns on my 1962 wagon. Apparently, one of them had been bad for a while, but since the horn still blew, I thought everything was okay. Then one day, no horn at all. I picked up a new pair of horns at NAPA and installed them and MAN, WHAT A DIFFERENCE...!!!

On the gas gauge - does the temperature gauge work? There is a voltage regulator module that supplies voltage to the gauges. It is basically a bi-metal spring that controls a set of contacts that switch the 12V and provides temperature compensation, since the gauges are thermal gauges. If it's defective, then the gauges won't work. Also, on the gas gauge, when you installed the tank, is the tank grounded to the body? The sending unit gets it's ground return through the tank and the body of the car. If you painted or coated the mounting surfaces for the tank or if you painted or undercoated the tank, it may not be making a connection. Check it by using an ohm meter to verify that the tank is really grounded. If not, you can solve the problem by getting a large star washer, dropping the tank slightly, scraping some of the paint off of the tank and mounting surface, inserting the star washer, and tightening the tank back up again.

Good luck with your fixes.
Wow...thats a lot of information to take in. I'm screen shooting your reply so I can re-read this and go over each and every one of your responses. All excellent points to consider. The tank is grounded but not getting any OHM readings at the terminal plug at the tank. I haven't ran the engine long enough to see if the temp gage works but ill do that today. I've see a dozen Falcons for sale and all the pictures show the gas gage on empty. Coincidence???
I'm getting a reading to the horn male plug but nothing at the female relay . It has 3 horns and I haven't checked the other 2 yet. I'm suspecting the relay is original and shot.
Voltage regulator module. A bimetal spring...I'll have to see where thats located. Not sure how to test that other than just trying to replace it once found.
I know some projects can take upwards to 3 years to get it to where people are happy with it. For myself its only been a couple months but I'm making good strides. Now , for me its the stupid little things that may be out of my control. Sure I can take it to an electrical automotive shop and say....make my horn work...make my gas gage work....make my turn signal blink and the shut off when I turn the wheel....fix my original AM radio thats still in the dash...
Like I said right now its the little things that have me stumped. I can do a drum to disk conversion but can't get a horn to honk....but I'll keep my head up and keep learning. Thanks for the information.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
Oh believe me...I won't....all I got is time...maybe not deep pockets but plenty of time. Automotive Electrical shop will be my last option. It's guys like you on here that keep me informed and motivated.
Throwing on new back sneakers today... View attachment 48292
I should probably address those leaf springs at some point.....and maybe scrape off the mud wasps nests on my rear axle cover....🤪
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
The gauges are thermal gauges. When you run current through them, they get warm and the warmer they get the further the needle deflects upward. This explains why the gas gauges in the photos that you see of other Falcons show the gas gauges reading empty.This thermal action is what allows the gauge to show a steady reading even when the fuel is sloshing around in the tank and the float is going up and down. Since the gauge readings are dependent upon temperature, if a constant voltage was applied to them then the gauges would not read the same in winter and summer. So the temperature regulator module accounts for this and varies the voltage to the gauges based upon ambient temperature. This module is located on the back of the instrument panel somewhere. I bought a NOS part from eBay years ago and the places that sell parts for classic cars might have them as well. But before you get into this, start the engine and let it start to warm up and if the temperature gauge increases, then the regulator is most likely alright.

If you are still learning about your car, get a reproduction Ford Falcon shop manual. The classic car sites sell them. The Falcon is a very simple car and the manual explains almost everything in it clearly. If you don't have very much knowledge of electricity then check out some of the videos on YouTube that teach basic electrical theory. You don't need to be an electrical engineer to work on cars (unless you are working on today's cars!) but good basic knowledge will usually let you do all you need.

Most importantly....have fun!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
The gauges are thermal gauges. When you run current through them, they get warm and the warmer they get the further the needle deflects upward. This explains why the gas gauges in the photos that you see of other Falcons show the gas gauges reading empty.This thermal action is what allows the gauge to show a steady reading even when the fuel is sloshing around in the tank and the float is going up and down. Since the gauge readings are dependent upon temperature, if a constant voltage was applied to them then the gauges would not read the same in winter and summer. So the temperature regulator module accounts for this and varies the voltage to the gauges based upon ambient temperature. This module is located on the back of the instrument panel somewhere. I bought a NOS part from eBay years ago and the places that sell parts for classic cars might have them as well. But before you get into this, start the engine and let it start to warm up and if the temperature gauge increases, then the regulator is most likely alright.

If you are still learning about your car, get a reproduction Ford Falcon shop manual. The classic car sites sell them. The Falcon is a very simple car and the manual explains almost everything in it clearly. If you don't have very much knowledge of electricity then check out some of the videos on YouTube that teach basic electrical theory. You don't need to be an electrical engineer to work on cars (unless you are working on today's cars!) but good basic knowledge will usually let you do all you need.

Most importantly....have fun!
I'm forever in " learning mode" about this Falcon. Waiting on the wiring diagram for this model and haven't pulled the 35 dollar trigger on the 64 Falcon shop manual, but you know I will.
My expectations run way too high watching YouTube videos of tearing down and rebuilding an inline 200. I'd love to throw in a street cam...aluminum head...new intake Manifold, headers ect....Summit can take all my 💰 money !! Thats the danger of being a "shade tree mechanic".....
Its only 36° out today but as the weather warms I'll try to get to the other issues...mostly the gas gage which will irk the hell out of me to not know whats in the tank. There's no magic wands....and I need to keep myself in check and not become obsessed...just realistic.
48293
48294
48295
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,409 Posts
If you need an instrument voltage regulator, it looks like the attached.
The single hole attachment is usually mount to the back of the instrument cluster as stated above. One wire in 12v+ and one wire out that steps down the voltage to something like 5 volts. So if it stops working ALL gauges stop working as well.

Action




0000008078_0035000400.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
If you need an instrument voltage regulator, it looks like the attached.
The single hole attachment is usually mount to the back of the instrument cluster as stated above. One wire in 12v+ and one wire out that steps down the voltage to something like 5 volts. So if it stops working ALL gauges stop working as well.

Action




View attachment 48296
Ahhh...excellent...I'll try to locate that. It looks like my temperature gage is working but right now I'm headed to Autozone since while I was letting it idle to address the temperature gage I was getting oil pushed up through my dipstick...which (hopefully) indicates a simple PCV valve replacement....let's hope thats the case....thank you so much for your information...I'll be sure to check that module. Time flies when you're having fun...!!
48300
48301
48302
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,409 Posts
If one of those gauges work the instrument voltage regulator (IVR) IS working.

Focus on the non-working fuel indication system. My guess the issue will be back at the tank.

Action
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
If one of those gauges work the instrument voltage regulator (IVR) IS working.

Focus on the non-working fuel indication system. My guess the issue will be back at the tank.

Action
Generator light kept coming on so I disconnected the positive cable and the engine shut down. Thinking the Generator was bad I took it to a shop that specializes in Generator repair. Told me there was nothing wrong with it and was probably the regulator reducer behind the instrument panel. Just ordered one and ill get it on Tuesday. Hopefully that'll keep my engine running when the battery cable is disconnected. We'll see. Not probably going to fix the gas gage but at least I'm in the right direction with the panel at least to see what I have back there. Plus I replaced the 4 bulbs 💡 that are connected to the instrument panel...so there's that. Both items seem to be originals, especially the voltage regulator reducer.
48318
48319
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,409 Posts
The bottom pick that you have called a voltage regulator reducer, has nothing to do with the charging system. And everything to do with instrument gauges. Usually the fuel gauge and temp gauge. Those gauges operate on less than 12 volts. (I believe 5) To get the voltage down a Instrument Voltage Regulator (IVR) is used. Again has nothing to do with the charging system.

I would not remove a battery cable from the battery when the engine is running. This causes voltage spikes. A charging system with a generator might be OK with that. However an alternator or any electronics would likely be damaged.


Action
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,560 Posts
you said the temp guage works. the ivr is good. regulator for the generator is usually on the radiator support. with engine idling the generator may not put out enough to keep the engine running. highrer rpm is needed. nothing unusual for the gen light to glow or flicker iat idle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
The bottom pick that you have called a voltage regulator reducer, has nothing to do with the charging system. And everything to do with instrument gauges. Usually the fuel gauge and temp gauge. Those gauges operate on less than 12 volts. (I believe 5) To get the voltage down a Instrument Voltage Regulator (IVR) is used. Again has nothing to do with the charging system.

I would not remove a battery cable from the battery when the engine is running. This causes voltage spikes. A charging system with a generator might be OK with that. However an alternator or any electronics would likely be damaged.


Action
The generator turned out to be okay. I did order a new cluster reducer and hopefully this might...might do something with the fuel gage. I always assumed you should be able to remove the positive cable and the car should continue running or else something was not functioning....like a bad alternator...or in this case....the generator.
you said the temp guage works. the ivr is good. regulator for the generator is usually on the radiator support. with engine idling the generator may not put out enough to keep the engine running. highrer rpm is needed. nothing unusual for the gen light to glow or flicker iat idle
Yes the generator light stays lit but flickers or goes out with the engine revved up....but I don't think it should stay on at idle. That was my concern that led me to have it checked out. I was told it may be the Voltage regulator.
 

·
Registered
1963 Falcon Futura convertible v8 4 on the floor
Joined
·
27 Posts
Same problem with my generator: at idle with a warm motor, light comes on. But it is the voltage regulator which seems to be faulty. I installed a new one (Mac) and also new generator wiring across the radiator. Now I have trouble to adjust it... either I get up to 16V or nothing more than what the battery delivers. Still on that...
Good luck with yours!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
Same problem with my generator: at idle with a warm motor, light comes on. But it is the voltage regulator which seems to be faulty. I installed a new one (Mac) and also new generator wiring across the radiator. Now I have trouble to adjust it... either I get up to 16V or nothing more than what the battery delivers. Still on that...
Good luck with yours!
I haven't installed the new voltage regulator but I'll be sure to check that out and will update you on what happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts

·
Registered
1963 Falcon Futura convertible v8 4 on the floor
Joined
·
27 Posts
It is strait forward but a must! Everytime you disconnect the battery, you have to do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
It is strait forward but a must! Everytime you disconnect the battery, you have to do it.
What !!!!???? That's crazy....considering I'm always removing the battery for one reason or another. Ill definitely have to keep this in mind moving forward...
 
21 - 40 of 60 Posts
Top