Ford Automobiles banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi Folks,
New Guy here... I just registered here. I am looking for people with extensive knowledge regarding the T-Bird Super Coupe with the 3.8L supercharged engine. I have a wrecked one that still runs good that I am going to harvest the drive train and suspension system from for my '53 Ford F-100 project. You can get to the project through my signature.

Any input regarding the engine and the ECM and the OBD-1 system would be greatly appreciated.

Later Folks...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
154 Posts
I don't know much about the supercoupe, other thasn they sound neat. I've seen pics of 5.0's with 2 supercoupe blowers hanging off of the exhaust manifolds, looks kinda wild. I saw a sec. gen lightning with twin factory huffers, too. Have fun, keep us posted, and Welcome to the site, e need more old iron around here. Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,028 Posts
that would be a sight when you pull it off, but will it have enough power and torque to move the truck? remember the truck weighs at the very least twice as much as the car...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,755 Posts
Love the truck!!! I am building a 65 right now. Pictures when it's far enough for that. Super Coupe!!! That engine will have more than enough power to melt the tires on your 53' for sure. Just the sound of that super charger pumping air will raise your BP 10 points. It should be a pretty simple job. It is OBDI so as far as sophisticated wiring nightmares this one should be pretty easy. Grab the entire harness from PCM to engine and Trans. Get some wire diagrams so you will know where to splice it into the truck harness for power and grounds and it should work well. The boost is mechanical so no fancy electronics are involved. The parts for this beast are getting rare and expensive but they are out there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Love the truck!!! I am building a 65 right now. Pictures when it's far enough for that. Super Coupe!!! That engine will have more than enough power to melt the tires on your 53' for sure. Just the sound of that super charger pumping air will raise your BP 10 points. It should be a pretty simple job. It is OBDI so as far as sophisticated wiring nightmares this one should be pretty easy. Grab the entire harness from PCM to engine and Trans. Get some wire diagrams so you will know where to splice it into the truck harness for power and grounds and it should work well. The boost is mechanical so no fancy electronics are involved. The parts for this beast are getting rare and expensive but they are out there.
Roger on the expensive rare parts... That's why I always buy whole vehicles when they are around to be had. I definitely will be watching for SC's on the market now.

The biggest problem is going to be interfacing controls and instrumentation from the '90 SC with the stuff I am using from a '99 and '97 Explorer. I want to maintain the Explorer anti-lock brake system with using the whole independent rear suspension set up from the SC. The problem there is that the SC senses both axles and the explorer sensed the ring gear in the diff. I do believe the later Birds had the sensor on the diff case over the ring gear. I either have to find one of those or figure a way to use one or both of the '90 SC's axle sensors. Of course those are only two of the problems. I have the EVT manuals for both the SC and the Explorer. I have been scanning diagrams and combining them on the computer. That way I print them out and draw in the the connections between the two systems. I'm afraid if I don't document this stuff I will be totally lost.

I think you are right about the SC engine and the ECM stuff being pretty much stand alone. I don't see too much of a problem with that. The real challenge is mating the two instrumentation and control system. I still want to have cruise control, speedo and tach. The tach may be a problem. If so I will replace it with a big boost gauge and run an external aftermarket tach.

Later Man...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,755 Posts
The later Explorers with the independent rear used one sensor over the ring gear but if you scan them and watch the pids they reported left and right sides. The programing may be available for what you want to do. The other thing I would look at is using the rear our of an 02 and up Explorer. It's an 8.8, independent with rear disc brakes and comes in a couple different ratios.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,028 Posts
Love the truck!!! I am building a 65 right now. Pictures when it's far enough for that. Super Coupe!!! That engine will have more than enough power to melt the tires on your 53' for sure. Just the sound of that super charger pumping air will raise your BP 10 points. It should be a pretty simple job. It is OBDI so as far as sophisticated wiring nightmares this one should be pretty easy. Grab the entire harness from PCM to engine and Trans. Get some wire diagrams so you will know where to splice it into the truck harness for power and grounds and it should work well. The boost is mechanical so no fancy electronics are involved. The parts for this beast are getting rare and expensive but they are out there.
i may be mistaken, but i seem to remember the 3.8 supercharged (with blower) was EEC-IV. those are the only ones i've seen. the other ones (turbo) were EEC-2/3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
i may be mistaken, but i seem to remember the 3.8 supercharged (with blower) was EEC-IV. those are the only ones i've seen. the other ones (turbo) were EEC-2/3
OK, now you got me... What is the difference and where do I learn more about this???

Later Man...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,755 Posts
The Super Coupe was EEC IV which IS OBD I. Same system. The Turbo Coupes were very different than the SC Birds. The Turbo was a 2.3 L 4 cylinder engine and it used EEC III. It had no on board diagnostic ability and could only report codes through the use of a Star Tester. OBD II is also known as EEC V. The only blower engine was the 3.8. The TC Birds where quick but the SC Bird would suck the headlights out of one in a drag race.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
That helps...

Thanks for explaining that. I suspected that might be what you meant but I was nor sure.

Since you know about this stuff allow me to pick your brains a little more... I would like to find a laptop adapter and software I can look at the OBD-1 stuff on the '90 SC with. Do you know where I can find that???

Second, I would like to know of any books or publications I could find that really gets into how all this stuff really works. I am well versed in electronics, control systems and computers so I think I can figure it all out if I have the info.

Later Man...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
The later Explorers with the independent rear used one sensor over the ring gear but if you scan them and watch the pids they reported left and right sides. The programing may be available for what you want to do. The other thing I would look at is using the rear our of an 02 and up Explorer. It's an 8.8, independent with rear disc brakes and comes in a couple different ratios.
How do they are sampling both axles with one ring gear sensor ??? I think they have independent wheel sensors too for the anti-lock brake system.

The '02s and up are rarely in the Pull-A-Part yards. Plus, I'm trying very hard to stick with what I have. My ultimate goal is to spend as little as possible and get as much as I can accomplished. But hey, that's just the way I am.

Later Man...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,028 Posts
The Super Coupe was EEC IV which IS OBD I. Same system. The Turbo Coupes were very different than the SC Birds. The Turbo was a 2.3 L 4 cylinder engine and it used EEC III. It had no on board diagnostic ability and could only report codes through the use of a Star Tester. OBD II is also known as EEC V. The only blower engine was the 3.8. The TC Birds where quick but the SC Bird would suck the headlights out of one in a drag race.
sorry. i was half asleep when i read the first one you posted... I, for some reason, thought you said it was EEC-1... my bad...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
that would be a sight when you pull it off, but will it have enough power and torque to move the truck? remember the truck weighs at the very least twice as much as the car...
Actually the truck will weigh a lot less than the SC did. the SC was pushing 4,000#. The old '53 F-100 short beds were pretty light and that SC engine is more that twice the power and torque of the old flat head V-8 and even more than the six. Also the SC engine is lighter than the old engines were. Then there is also the aluminum cased tranny and transfer case. The truck will probably not make it to 3,500#

Later Man...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,755 Posts
Thanks for explaining that. I suspected that might be what you meant but I was nor sure.

Since you know about this stuff allow me to pick your brains a little more... I would like to find a laptop adapter and software I can look at the OBD-1 stuff on the '90 SC with. Do you know where I can find that???

Second, I would like to know of any books or publications I could find that really gets into how all this stuff really works. I am well versed in electronics, control systems and computers so I think I can figure it all out if I have the info.

Later Man...

You can probably find all the books you need at Borders or Barnes and Noble. The scan tools for OBD I are scarce. No one is making new ones anymore for a dieing technology. Blue Point (Snap On) make one. I am not certain of the part number but it comes with a hand held scanner but also a DVD to install the software on a lap top. If you could find a Ford dealer that has an old SBDS system sitting in the corner gathering dust and could get a good price that would be the ticket. It is old school but back in the day it was the best going. The only draw back is the size. It's big!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
You can probably find all the books you need at Borders or Barnes and Noble. The scan tools for OBD I are scarce. No one is making new ones anymore for a dieing technology. Blue Point (Snap On) make one. I am not certain of the part number but it comes with a hand held scanner but also a DVD to install the software on a lap top. If you could find a Ford dealer that has an old SBDS system sitting in the corner gathering dust and could get a good price that would be the ticket. It is old school but back in the day it was the best going. The only draw back is the size. It's big!!
This alone might be a real good reason to go with something like Megasquirt. They seem to have a lot of stuff that will upgrade the system and make it so laptops can be used. It looks like a great way to spend $500.00 + but maybe the best in the long run. With my limited space the last thing I need is something that is big.

Later Man...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
that would be a sight when you pull it off, but will it have enough power and torque to move the truck? remember the truck weighs at the very least twice as much as the car...
According to Ford's specifications the truck as stock weighed 3240# The Super Coupe weighed more by several hundred pounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,755 Posts
How do they are sampling both axles with one ring gear sensor ??? I think they have independent wheel sensors too for the anti-lock brake system.

The '02s and up are rarely in the Pull-A-Part yards. Plus, I'm trying very hard to stick with what I have. My ultimate goal is to spend as little as possible and get as much as I can accomplished. But hey, that's just the way I am.

Later Man...

The Explorers that had an IVS system in them had sensors at each rear wheel. The ones that were not equipped with IVS only had the sensor in the rear diff but like I said when you scanned the system if the rear sensor was not working it would report left and right sensors inop. The module had the ability to report both so there was something done with the wiring or programing to make it "think" it had both.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
The Explorers that had an IVS system in them had sensors at each rear wheel. The ones that were not equipped with IVS only had the sensor in the rear diff but like I said when you scanned the system if the rear sensor was not working it would report left and right sensors inop. The module had the ability to report both so there was something done with the wiring or programing to make it "think" it had both.
I'm a bit confused here... The '99 Explorer that I harvested the rolling chassis from had the anti-lock braking system with the electric hydraulic pump on it. However it does not have individual rear wheel sensors on the axles at the hubs. I will have to look again but the wiring diagrams and schematics do not show any sensors there. They only show the ring gear sensor. So, I'm guessing that IVS, (What is IVS?), is something extra beyond ABS. Please explain. I also wonder why this alternative is not shown in the book for the Explorer.

Please understand, I am not disagreeing with you, I am in fact trying to understand this system. I am also wondering if the module from the Explorer, which I will be using, is capable of being adapted to the T-Bird's IRS which I am going to use as a complete assy with the diff that has no ring gear sensor. Possibly some kind of gating or combiner circuitry could be employed so the Explorer system could see it as one sensor. The only other alternative would be to find an Explorer that has the IVS system and harvest the correct modules. That may not be a good idea either if it they are not compatible with what I got from the '99 and '97 I harvested parts from.

Later Man...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,755 Posts
Sorry. Should have expanded that IVS thing. I do that without thinking. 40 years on this stuff and sometimes I just ramble on like everyone knows what I am talking about. IVS is In Vehicle Stabilty. It has a ton of stuff that goes with it and I think you would need a electrical engineer to set it all up in your 53. (Anti roll stability, active booster, pitch and yaw sensors, the list goes on) What I am saying about the left and right sensors is hard to explain I guess. I know there is only the one sensor in the diff but some versions of the Explorer if you get an ABS light for a rear sensor will report to the scan tool that left and right are bad even though it doesn't have sensors on the left and right sides.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top